[SI-LIST] Re: SI Simulation of GHz signals
- From: ronald miller <ron@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: fzanella@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2004 08:20:52 -0700
> Hi Fabrizio
>
> Try the Wavecrest website. Dennis Petrich is the PHD at Wavecrest who
> wrote their BERT software
> based on the bathtub curve.
Ron Miller
Zanella, Fabrizio wrote:
>Does anyone have pointers to detailed explanations of the techniques
>required for the following techniques required for 5Gbs and above SI
>simulations?
>Probability Distribution Function (PDF) plots, Bathtub Curves (CDF).
>Also, what is the maximum allowable crosstalk in dB from the surrounding
>channels at the operating frequency when measured with respect to the
>insertion loss on the channel?
>
>Thanks,=20
>Fabrizio Zanella
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
>On Behalf Of Craig Clewell
>Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2004 8:48 AM
>To: clifford@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>Cc: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: SI Simulation of GHz signals
>
>Hi Clifford,=20
>
>If you are really interested in running the s parameters in HSPCIE to
>speed up your simulation times (and your part vendor won't supply them)
>you may want to set up an ac analysis for the "parts" and run each one
>individually. You can generate the S parameters within HSPICE, or any
>other simulator using discrete components. I keep some handy netlists
>available that I re-use over and over again that allow me to just drop
>in single part models. You also may want to create a macro in Excel, or
>a script in MatLab, etc... that will take your output and format it into
>a Touchstone file. =20
>
>If you do this work up front you can train your monkey to re-use the
>netlist and macro over and over again. This will also allow you to
>quickly go back and investigate each piece of the system on its own, and
>build up a library of S parameter files for devices that you re-use.
>When you want to put the system together you can then drop in all the s
>parameter files from your library.
>
>...just an idea
>
>Craig
>
> =20
>
>
>
>>Hello
>>I would like to perform reliable simulation of GHz signals (up to
>>3.125GHz), specifically Xilinx RocketIO. I would like to include in the
>>simulation the effects of the following:
>>Driver->PCB trace (incl. vias)->connector->cable->connector->PCB
>>trace(incl. vias)->Receiver
>>
>>The models that I have obtained from the various vendors are HSPICE
>>models. I have evaluated two of the most recommended S.I. toolchains:
>>Mentor G. HyperLynx and Cadence Spectraquest. Both tools use HSPICE as
>>the simulation engine, and essentially act as a front-end gui to
>>
>>
>HSPICE,
>
>
>>as well as extracting the PCB trace/via models. My experiences thusfar
>>with both tools have not been good. Anything but the most simplistic of
>>traces causes the tools to either crash or take rediculous time to
>>process (of the order of hours for even a simple net). A further issue
>>is that both of these tool vendors claim that the HSPICE simulator is
>>not necessary, and that the simulation can be performed without it, but
>>practically this is not the case, due to a lack of availability of
>>reliable models in anything other than HSPICE format. The conversion
>>
>>
>>from HSPICE to any of the custom modelling types is also, in my
>opinion,
>
>
>>non-trivial and potentially an extremely tedious manual process.
>>
>>I believe that S-Parameter based simulation provides much faster
>>simulation, but again there is a lack of availability of S-Parameter
>>models.
>>
>>Can anyone recommend a method for simulating the above signals that is
>>simple, robust and reliable, or is the simulation of such signals still
>>premature? Coming from a HW design background, I am fairly new to S.I.,
>>but it seems surprising that there is no industry-standard modelling
>>type (equivalent of IBIS) that cable/connector vendors will provide,
>>
>>
>but
>
>
>>maybe this level of simulation is in its infancy, and S-Parameter
>>
>>
>models
>
>
>>will emerge as the standard?
>>
>>Is the simulation of such signals entirely necessary? I am dubious
>>
>>
>about
>
>
>>the reliability of the results of such simulations, and I am wondering
>>whether it is not more practical to just take all the precautions
>>possible and hope for the best!
>>
>>Please let me know if you have any advise, or a good solution to my
>>dilemma!
>>
>>Kind regards,
>>Clifford
>>
>>
>>
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