[SI-LIST] Re: SI Simulation of GHz signals
- From: "Zanella, Fabrizio" <fzanella@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2004 10:11:40 -0400
Does anyone have pointers to detailed explanations of the techniques
required for the following techniques required for 5Gbs and above SI
simulations?
Probability Distribution Function (PDF) plots, Bathtub Curves (CDF).
Also, what is the maximum allowable crosstalk in dB from the surrounding
channels at the operating frequency when measured with respect to the
insertion loss on the channel?
Thanks,=20
Fabrizio Zanella
-----Original Message-----
From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Craig Clewell
Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2004 8:48 AM
To: clifford@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Cc: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: SI Simulation of GHz signals
Hi Clifford,=20
If you are really interested in running the s parameters in HSPCIE to
speed up your simulation times (and your part vendor won't supply them)
you may want to set up an ac analysis for the "parts" and run each one
individually. You can generate the S parameters within HSPICE, or any
other simulator using discrete components. I keep some handy netlists
available that I re-use over and over again that allow me to just drop
in single part models. You also may want to create a macro in Excel, or
a script in MatLab, etc... that will take your output and format it into
a Touchstone file. =20
If you do this work up front you can train your monkey to re-use the
netlist and macro over and over again. This will also allow you to
quickly go back and investigate each piece of the system on its own, and
build up a library of S parameter files for devices that you re-use.
When you want to put the system together you can then drop in all the s
parameter files from your library.
...just an idea
Craig
=20
>Hello
>I would like to perform reliable simulation of GHz signals (up to
>3.125GHz), specifically Xilinx RocketIO. I would like to include in the
>simulation the effects of the following:
>Driver->PCB trace (incl. vias)->connector->cable->connector->PCB
>trace(incl. vias)->Receiver
>
>The models that I have obtained from the various vendors are HSPICE
>models. I have evaluated two of the most recommended S.I. toolchains:
>Mentor G. HyperLynx and Cadence Spectraquest. Both tools use HSPICE as
>the simulation engine, and essentially act as a front-end gui to
HSPICE,
>as well as extracting the PCB trace/via models. My experiences thusfar
>with both tools have not been good. Anything but the most simplistic of
>traces causes the tools to either crash or take rediculous time to
>process (of the order of hours for even a simple net). A further issue
>is that both of these tool vendors claim that the HSPICE simulator is
>not necessary, and that the simulation can be performed without it, but
>practically this is not the case, due to a lack of availability of
>reliable models in anything other than HSPICE format. The conversion
>from HSPICE to any of the custom modelling types is also, in my
opinion,
>non-trivial and potentially an extremely tedious manual process.
>
>I believe that S-Parameter based simulation provides much faster
>simulation, but again there is a lack of availability of S-Parameter
>models.
>
>Can anyone recommend a method for simulating the above signals that is
>simple, robust and reliable, or is the simulation of such signals still
>premature? Coming from a HW design background, I am fairly new to S.I.,
>but it seems surprising that there is no industry-standard modelling
>type (equivalent of IBIS) that cable/connector vendors will provide,
but
>maybe this level of simulation is in its infancy, and S-Parameter
models
>will emerge as the standard?
>
>Is the simulation of such signals entirely necessary? I am dubious
about
>the reliability of the results of such simulations, and I am wondering
>whether it is not more practical to just take all the precautions
>possible and hope for the best!
>
>Please let me know if you have any advise, or a good solution to my
>dilemma!
>
>Kind regards,
>Clifford
>
>
>
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