[SI-LIST] Re: SI Simulation of GHz signals

>
>
>Guys
>
ADS from Agilent is specifically designed to simulate microwave signals 
reliably.  It is graphically
input and simulates in the frequency domain.  Transformation into the 
time domain in order to
integrate with the intenal spice simulator is is accomplished with an 
impulse response convolution.

There is no convergence needed except for the spice simulator time 
domain portion.  S-Parameters
can also be used as a model.

For the operator all this happens in the background.  Simulation is very 
accurate with models simulated
up to 20 Ghz and some higher yet.

So, what is the negative side?  $20K to lease for a year including 
maintenance and upgrades,
and time to learn to use it.  



>
>
>
>Hello
>I would like to perform reliable simulation of GHz signals (up to
>3.125GHz), specifically Xilinx RocketIO. I would like to include in the
>simulation the effects of the following:
>Driver->PCB trace (incl. vias)->connector->cable->connector->PCB
>trace(incl. vias)->Receiver
>
>The models that I have obtained from the various vendors are HSPICE
>models. I have evaluated two of the most recommended S.I. toolchains:
>Mentor G. HyperLynx and Cadence Spectraquest. Both tools use HSPICE as
>the simulation engine, and essentially act as a front-end gui to HSPICE,
>as well as extracting the PCB trace/via models. My experiences thusfar
>with both tools have not been good. Anything but the most simplistic of
>traces causes the tools to either crash or take rediculous time to
>process (of the order of hours for even a simple net). A further issue
>is that both of these tool vendors claim that the HSPICE simulator is
>not necessary, and that the simulation can be performed without it, but
>practically this is not the case, due to a lack of availability of
>reliable models in anything other than HSPICE format. The conversion
>from HSPICE to any of the custom modelling types is also, in my opinion,
>non-trivial and potentially an extremely tedious manual process.
>
>I believe that S-Parameter based simulation provides much faster
>simulation, but again there is a lack of availability of S-Parameter
>models.
>
>Can anyone recommend a method for simulating the above signals that is
>simple, robust and reliable, or is the simulation of such signals still
>premature? Coming from a HW design background, I am fairly new to S.I.,
>but it seems surprising that  there is no industry-standard modelling
>type (equivalent of IBIS) that cable/connector vendors will provide, but
>maybe this level of simulation is in its infancy, and S-Parameter models
>will emerge as the standard?
>
>Is the simulation of such signals entirely necessary? I am dubious about
>the reliability of the results of such simulations, and I am wondering
>whether it is not more practical to just take all the precautions
>possible and hope for the best!
>
>Please let me know if you have any advise, or a good solution to my
>dilemma!
>
>Kind regards,
>Clifford
>
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------
>To unsubscribe from si-list:
>si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field
>
>or to administer your membership from a web page, go to:
>http://www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list
>
>For help:
>si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'help' in the Subject field
>
>List FAQ wiki page is located at:
>                http://si-list.org/wiki/wiki.pl?Si-List_FAQ
>
>List technical documents are available at:
>                http://www.si-list.org
>
>List archives are viewable at:
>                         http://www.freelists.org/archives/si-list
>or at our remote archives:
>                         http://groups.yahoo.com/group/si-list/messages
>Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at:
>                         http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------
>To unsubscribe from si-list:
>si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field
>
>or to administer your membership from a web page, go to:
>http://www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list
>
>For help:
>si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'help' in the Subject field
>
>List FAQ wiki page is located at:
>                http://si-list.org/wiki/wiki.pl?Si-List_FAQ
>
>List technical documents are available at:
>                http://www.si-list.org
>
>List archives are viewable at:     
>               http://www.freelists.org/archives/si-list
>or at our remote archives:
>               http://groups.yahoo.com/group/si-list/messages
>Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at:
>               http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu
>  
>
>
>  
>


------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe from si-list:
si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field

or to administer your membership from a web page, go to:
http://www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list

For help:
si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'help' in the Subject field

List FAQ wiki page is located at:
                http://si-list.org/wiki/wiki.pl?Si-List_FAQ

List technical documents are available at:
                http://www.si-list.org

List archives are viewable at:     
                http://www.freelists.org/archives/si-list
or at our remote archives:
                http://groups.yahoo.com/group/si-list/messages
Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at:
                http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu

Other related posts: