Re: Vb.net or C#.net Tutorial Project

First, I have not even started building a project nor explaining anything at 
all about programming other than to answer your questions. I am just trying to 
finish up a tutorial on how to set up the IDE for accessibility with a Screen 
Reader that is usable and a short blurb on how to use Context Help to find out 
things aabout the IDE while navigating around it. Basically the project has not 
started yet, just trying to get people to make their IDEs accessible enough not 
to turn them off while trying to work in it and customize it as they become 
more experienced. No programming or concepts yet except to answer any 
questions. Kick back and relax and make sure your IDE is accessible and not 
messy. The project will be coming up this week. And there will be plenty of 
chatter about technicals, all be them basic, as it grows up. If enough folks 
make it through the end of this module there will be another at a little higher 
level and a third module and, if I don't give up, more modules until we broach 
the limits of my understanding or patients. Likely we will branch off into 
Website Development as soon as folks have a grip on the IDE and some basic 
programming skills since that is where the fun and action is these days. 
Rick USA
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: qubit 
  To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
  Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2010 3:54 PM
  Subject: Re: Vb.net or C#.net Tutorial Project


  there was nothing about internal system operation -- i was talking about the 
classes and objects c# uses from the interface to .NET in order to do things.
  I am not trying to start with system implementation, just trying to help with 
some overview of what you are actually doing -- which should probably follow 
your approach of starting with hello world or whatever to get things off the 
ground.
  Just trying to help contribute.
  --le
    ----- Original Message ----- 
    From: RicksPlace 
    To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
    Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2010 1:31 PM
    Subject: Re: Vb.net or C#.net Tutorial Project


    Hi: Please drop the internal system operations within these threads. 
    We are going to start with building a project then looking at assignment 
statements, variables, math functions, strings and other things like looping, 
calling subroutines and functions and Arrays. We will use simple UI controls at 
first and wrap up with some more advanced UI Control basics. We will review 
some basic programming techniques for the Raw Beginners before moving into 
Database and Binding.
     so please don't get into all this advanced stuff. It will just confuse the 
hell out of raw beginners and those are the folks this tutorial series is for. 
Later we can get into intermediate level stuff if you want. 
    Rick USA
      ----- Original Message ----- 
      From: qubit 
      To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
      Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2010 2:08 PM
      Subject: Re: Vb.net or C#.net Tutorial Project


      my handle is Q U B I T, as in quantum bit, not CUPID the one with the 
arrows...although I think cupid might be more interesting...

      As for terms, I would suggest looking at the terms in the language specs 
on msdn for use in this class, as that will have a point of reference other 
than someone's related experience in other languages.  I had not brought up the 
stack variables and such.  It is natural to thinking of everything at once when 
you first start out, but for the sake of learning, I agree we should start with 
some simple objects and show their use.

      As I was reading the "getting started" in C# on microsoft.com, it 
described the common language interface (CLI) -- at least I think that is the 
acronym. This is the set of objects and resources common to all the managed (or 
.NET) languages.  I suggest getting familiar with the CLI and terms relating to 
it and follow an orderly progression to implement whatever project you are 
doing, and once done the user will be able to apply that to his/her language of 
choice.

      Is this acceptable?
      --le

        ----- Original Message ----- 
        From: Bryan Schulz 
        To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
        Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2010 12:41 PM
        Subject: Re: Vb.net or C#.net Tutorial Project


        hi,

        we can do without people being smart asses as that will quickly turn 
people off.
        if cupid or anyone else wants to quivel over wording of this project do 
it privately!

        Bryan Schulz

          ----- Original Message ----- 
          From: RicksPlace 
          To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
          Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2010 6:11 AM
          Subject: Re: Vb.net or C#.net Tutorial Project


          That is exactly what we want. Ya, the type of pointer or reference to 
an object depends on wheher it is stored on the Stack or that other place where 
stuff can get stored. I forget all that internals stuff since I have not looked 
at it in over 5 years now. It is not relevant to the Vb.net or C# languages 
until you get into more advanced programming. We can just use the ByVal or 
ByRef keywords in a parm list if necessary. At least that is how it works in 
Vb.net. In fact, you don't even need to specify ByVal or ByRef at all and the 
language will put the appropriate type of reference into the parm list 
automatically. At least it works like that in Vb.ne. If CSharp is diferent post 
up since I have yet to even build my first CSharp program within the past 5 
years at least.
          Rick USA
            ----- Original Message ----- 
            From: qubit 
            To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
            Sent: Friday, May 21, 2010 10:10 PM
            Subject: Re: Vb.net or C#.net Tutorial Project


            well, the address of a method or function is data, which is a 
special pointer type object.
            By executable statement, I mean something like an if-then-else or a 
loop or an expression such as an assignment to a variable.
            I'm trying to think what kind of object a statement would be. If 
the language defines a value for the result of a statement -- like an 
expression has a value after it is evaluated -- then a statement could be 
thought of as a special case of an expression, which could be thought of as a 
super object, constructed from from other objects.
            Ok, there's a definition. If Python treats objects as you say then 
I am just speculating how it must view different constructs in the language.  
Never mind me, I'm just thinking out loud.
            Happy hacking.
            --le

              ----- Original Message ----- 
              From: Donald Marang 
              To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
              Sent: Friday, May 21, 2010 7:44 PM
              Subject: Re: Vb.net or C#.net Tutorial Project


              I am not the person to respond to this question, I have not fully 
written any Python programs.  Obviously the language had to start with 
something.  If I can remember the tutorial examples, even some of the 
punctuation was treated as an object!  Perhaps I was hallucinating?  That's 
pretty strange.  I am not sure what you mean by executable statements.  
statements are thought of as methods of objects.  and even every subroutine /  
function is thought of as a method I think.  Even if not specified, they 
inherit basic properties that we used to think of as the basic nature of all 
functions.  Similarly, each data type will have standard methods defined, such 
as ToString.  They are all considered objects, no matter how simple.  I should 
stop now before I confuse everyone.  After all, I am still trying to absorb all 
of this as well, and have no experience.  

              Don Marang


              From: qubit 
              Sent: Friday, May 21, 2010 7:56 PM
              To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
              Subject: Re: Vb.net or C#.net Tutorial Project


              ah, ok, so python uses that paradigm.  Does it consider 
executable statements to also be objects? How about types? Do you declare 
objects to be of a given type, or is everything typed on the fly?  And are the 
types attributes or are attributes objects? LOL you have to have some basic 
special objects that do certain things, or you wouldn't have a language.
              I was going to use python in a little program just to learn it. 
It sounds like an interesting little language.
              --le

                ----- Original Message ----- 
                From: Donald Marang 
                To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
                Sent: Friday, May 21, 2010 5:43 PM
                Subject: Re: Vb.net or C#.net Tutorial Project


                In Python tutorials, they go to great lengths to stress that 
EVERYTHING is an object.  I have trouble expressing or even getting my head 
around their            examples.  But they make it clear, EVERYTHING is an 
object!  

                Don Marang


                From: qubit 
                Sent: Friday, May 21, 2010 4:59 PM
                To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
                Subject: Re: Vb.net or C#.net Tutorial Project


                I wouldn't call everything an object -- it is true the word 
"object" is overused and has been applied to many things. But in OO programs, 
it is a set of data coupled with "methods" or functions defining operations on 
that data. In the OO languages, all built in types declare objects -- for 
example, something as simple as an int variable is an integer object with 
operations + and - and you know the rest.

                The most general object is one of a "class" type.   This in C++ 
is a glorified struct with specialized data and member functions and 
inheritance from base classes whose data and functions you want to apply. It is 
similar with other OO languages.
                An object in my learning of the term is an instance of a type 
-- that is a variable or constant declared with that type.
                Perhaps the more recent textbooks redefine the term. I'll let 
other list members correct the holes or errors in my definition in modern 
parlance.

                And of course there are interfaces and templates and other 
beasties you need to learn in the various languages, generalizing types yet 
another level.

                So happy hacking.  For the procedural programmers accustomed to 
COBOL or C or fortran or whatever, I hope this is a helpful intro.  When I 
first made the transition from procedural to OO, it was like turning a C 
program inside-out -- or rather, OO style localized and hid more details of an 
implementation so the C version was like inside-out C++ with nits all scattered 
far and wide, even if the C program was well thought out.

                Happy hacking all.
                --le

                  ----- Original Message ----- 
                  From: RicksPlace 
                  To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
                  Sent: Friday, May 21, 2010 12:04 PM
                  Subject: Re: Vb.net or C#.net Tutorial Project


                  Hi Jim. I was doing COBOL when you were still watching Barney 
- Grin! I started programming back in the 1970's with Cobol and all that 
MainFrame Jazz so know exactly what you mean. I will be addressing OOP which is 
really nothing more than thinking of everything as an object. A Subroutine is 
an object, A Function Is An Object, An Array is an Object everything is pretty 
much an object. And, objects have properties you can set and often they have 
methods which are themselves subroutines or functions. Anyway it is not a 
somplex as the gurus make it sound, it's pretty easy and intuitive after you 
play with it a little.
                  Rick USA
                    ----- Original Message ----- 
                    From: Homme, James 
                    To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
                    Sent: Friday, May 21, 2010 8:25 AM
                    Subject: RE: Vb.net or C#.net Tutorial Project


                    Hi Rick,

                    First of all, thank you very much for taking the time to do 
this. Secondly, please don't skim over the object stuff. Speaking for myself, 
I'm an old Cobol programmer who has trouble thinking that way, so I need to get 
over it. I'll subscribe to the list from home, which is where I'll load the 
tools and do the work.

                     

                    Jim

                     

                    Jim Homme,

                    Usability Services,

                    Phone: 412-544-1810. Skype: jim.homme

                    Internal recipients,  Read my accessibility blog. Discuss 
accessibility here. Accessibility Wiki: Breaking news and accessibility advice

                     

                    From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
[mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of RicksPlace
                    Sent: Friday, May 21, 2010 8:17 AM
                    To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
                    Subject: Re: Vb.net or C#.net Tutorial Project

                     

                    Hi Guys: After the postings I think  the following project 
will hhelp get things off 

                    the ground. 
                    One:
                    We want a modular project so folks can pick and choose what 
they want to include in 

                    it and allow for skipping modules without impacting later 
modules. This way you can 

                    pick and choose features and technicals to include in the 
project.
                    Two:
                    Start from the very beginning building upon our experiences.
                    Three:
                    Use both Vb.net and C# ( Pronounced CSharp) if possible.
                    To this end I will build a series of tutorials this weekend 
and into next week 

                     

                    comprising Module01.
                    Module01 will just build the project and set up some 
fundemental building blocks we 

                     

                    can expand on later.
                    It will consist of 4 Tutorials:
                    tutorial01:
                    Step01
                    Set up the IDE for Accessibility using my settings, those 
on jamal's or the Elf's 

                     

                    site or your own settings as you prefer.
                    Step02
                    Add a ShortCut to Vb.net or C#.net to our DeskTop or 
whatever the same thing would 

                     

                    be in Vista or Windows7. this way you can just click a 
DeskTop Icon to open your IDE 

                     

                    for working on the project or any other Vb.net or C# 
project you build.
                    Tutorial02:
                    Step01
                    Create A Project named WinformBasics or one of your own 
choosing and 
                    Structure the project by adding a Utilities Folder with a 
Globals file and a Logger 

                     

                    Utility for use throughout all the subsequent modules.
                    Tutorial03:
                    Step01
                    Add a Windows Form called RootForm to the project and set 
some of it's properties.
                    Step02
                    Make rootForm the Default Project form and get rid of the 
automatically generated 

                     

                    Form1 Windows Form that was added when the Project was 
created.
                    Tutorial04
                    Add a MenuBar to RootForm with a Menu called HotLinks.
                    Add one or more links as pull down items to the HotLinks 
Menu that will take you to 

                    someplace, Websites in my current thinking.
                    Once we have Module01 up and running we will discuss the 
next set of tutorials which 

                    will add a second menu to the MenuBar of the RootForm.This 
Module will have features 

                    that will demonstrate basic programming techniques like 
working with strings, 

                    Arrays, Looping and anything else you might have questions 
about regarding the 

                    fundemental Vb.net or C# statements. It might prove cool to 
use this feature later in another series to create a project to display 
programming tips and snipet code for complex issues and would fit well in with 
a DataBase tutorial series if that is how you want to go later on.
                    we will also touch on creating a Class with Subroutines, 
Functions and Properties and see how to use them. This is for the Raw Beginners 
and unless otherwise indicated can be skim read by more experienced programmers 
before we continue to the Third Module where we can dig into OOP more in-depth 
or go into using Data Files and, or, a DataBase. So, look for the WinformBasics 
project with 4, or so, file attachments. They will be txt files you can copy 
and save. I think this is easier than trying to use the tutorials directly from 
inside a e-list posting and how I 

                    have done it in the past. Well, unless someone yells out 
Stop! I will try and get something up this weekend and have this first Module 
done by the end of the week.
                    Remember to speak up about anything because while we are on 
one topic we can all  discuss and have input into the material learned. Post up 
any tips, suggestions or

                    questions while we are working on a module to help make 
this series the best it can be in a short timeframe.
                    EndOfArticle

                     

                     

                       



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