Re: Vb.net or C#.net Tutorial Project
- From: "RicksPlace" <ofbgmail@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Sat, 22 May 2010 16:43:53 -0400
First, I have not even started building a project nor explaining anything at
all about programming other than to answer your questions. I am just trying to
finish up a tutorial on how to set up the IDE for accessibility with a Screen
Reader that is usable and a short blurb on how to use Context Help to find out
things aabout the IDE while navigating around it. Basically the project has not
started yet, just trying to get people to make their IDEs accessible enough not
to turn them off while trying to work in it and customize it as they become
more experienced. No programming or concepts yet except to answer any
questions. Kick back and relax and make sure your IDE is accessible and not
messy. The project will be coming up this week. And there will be plenty of
chatter about technicals, all be them basic, as it grows up. If enough folks
make it through the end of this module there will be another at a little higher
level and a third module and, if I don't give up, more modules until we broach
the limits of my understanding or patients. Likely we will branch off into
Website Development as soon as folks have a grip on the IDE and some basic
programming skills since that is where the fun and action is these days.
Rick USA
----- Original Message -----
From: qubit
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2010 3:54 PM
Subject: Re: Vb.net or C#.net Tutorial Project
there was nothing about internal system operation -- i was talking about the
classes and objects c# uses from the interface to .NET in order to do things.
I am not trying to start with system implementation, just trying to help with
some overview of what you are actually doing -- which should probably follow
your approach of starting with hello world or whatever to get things off the
ground.
Just trying to help contribute.
--le
----- Original Message -----
From: RicksPlace
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2010 1:31 PM
Subject: Re: Vb.net or C#.net Tutorial Project
Hi: Please drop the internal system operations within these threads.
We are going to start with building a project then looking at assignment
statements, variables, math functions, strings and other things like looping,
calling subroutines and functions and Arrays. We will use simple UI controls at
first and wrap up with some more advanced UI Control basics. We will review
some basic programming techniques for the Raw Beginners before moving into
Database and Binding.
so please don't get into all this advanced stuff. It will just confuse the
hell out of raw beginners and those are the folks this tutorial series is for.
Later we can get into intermediate level stuff if you want.
Rick USA
----- Original Message -----
From: qubit
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2010 2:08 PM
Subject: Re: Vb.net or C#.net Tutorial Project
my handle is Q U B I T, as in quantum bit, not CUPID the one with the
arrows...although I think cupid might be more interesting...
As for terms, I would suggest looking at the terms in the language specs
on msdn for use in this class, as that will have a point of reference other
than someone's related experience in other languages. I had not brought up the
stack variables and such. It is natural to thinking of everything at once when
you first start out, but for the sake of learning, I agree we should start with
some simple objects and show their use.
As I was reading the "getting started" in C# on microsoft.com, it
described the common language interface (CLI) -- at least I think that is the
acronym. This is the set of objects and resources common to all the managed (or
.NET) languages. I suggest getting familiar with the CLI and terms relating to
it and follow an orderly progression to implement whatever project you are
doing, and once done the user will be able to apply that to his/her language of
choice.
Is this acceptable?
--le
----- Original Message -----
From: Bryan Schulz
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2010 12:41 PM
Subject: Re: Vb.net or C#.net Tutorial Project
hi,
we can do without people being smart asses as that will quickly turn
people off.
if cupid or anyone else wants to quivel over wording of this project do
it privately!
Bryan Schulz
----- Original Message -----
From: RicksPlace
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2010 6:11 AM
Subject: Re: Vb.net or C#.net Tutorial Project
That is exactly what we want. Ya, the type of pointer or reference to
an object depends on wheher it is stored on the Stack or that other place where
stuff can get stored. I forget all that internals stuff since I have not looked
at it in over 5 years now. It is not relevant to the Vb.net or C# languages
until you get into more advanced programming. We can just use the ByVal or
ByRef keywords in a parm list if necessary. At least that is how it works in
Vb.net. In fact, you don't even need to specify ByVal or ByRef at all and the
language will put the appropriate type of reference into the parm list
automatically. At least it works like that in Vb.ne. If CSharp is diferent post
up since I have yet to even build my first CSharp program within the past 5
years at least.
Rick USA
----- Original Message -----
From: qubit
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Friday, May 21, 2010 10:10 PM
Subject: Re: Vb.net or C#.net Tutorial Project
well, the address of a method or function is data, which is a
special pointer type object.
By executable statement, I mean something like an if-then-else or a
loop or an expression such as an assignment to a variable.
I'm trying to think what kind of object a statement would be. If
the language defines a value for the result of a statement -- like an
expression has a value after it is evaluated -- then a statement could be
thought of as a special case of an expression, which could be thought of as a
super object, constructed from from other objects.
Ok, there's a definition. If Python treats objects as you say then
I am just speculating how it must view different constructs in the language.
Never mind me, I'm just thinking out loud.
Happy hacking.
--le
----- Original Message -----
From: Donald Marang
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Friday, May 21, 2010 7:44 PM
Subject: Re: Vb.net or C#.net Tutorial Project
I am not the person to respond to this question, I have not fully
written any Python programs. Obviously the language had to start with
something. If I can remember the tutorial examples, even some of the
punctuation was treated as an object! Perhaps I was hallucinating? That's
pretty strange. I am not sure what you mean by executable statements.
statements are thought of as methods of objects. and even every subroutine /
function is thought of as a method I think. Even if not specified, they
inherit basic properties that we used to think of as the basic nature of all
functions. Similarly, each data type will have standard methods defined, such
as ToString. They are all considered objects, no matter how simple. I should
stop now before I confuse everyone. After all, I am still trying to absorb all
of this as well, and have no experience.
Don Marang
From: qubit
Sent: Friday, May 21, 2010 7:56 PM
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: Vb.net or C#.net Tutorial Project
ah, ok, so python uses that paradigm. Does it consider
executable statements to also be objects? How about types? Do you declare
objects to be of a given type, or is everything typed on the fly? And are the
types attributes or are attributes objects? LOL you have to have some basic
special objects that do certain things, or you wouldn't have a language.
I was going to use python in a little program just to learn it.
It sounds like an interesting little language.
--le
----- Original Message -----
From: Donald Marang
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Friday, May 21, 2010 5:43 PM
Subject: Re: Vb.net or C#.net Tutorial Project
In Python tutorials, they go to great lengths to stress that
EVERYTHING is an object. I have trouble expressing or even getting my head
around their examples. But they make it clear, EVERYTHING is an
object!
Don Marang
From: qubit
Sent: Friday, May 21, 2010 4:59 PM
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: Vb.net or C#.net Tutorial Project
I wouldn't call everything an object -- it is true the word
"object" is overused and has been applied to many things. But in OO programs,
it is a set of data coupled with "methods" or functions defining operations on
that data. In the OO languages, all built in types declare objects -- for
example, something as simple as an int variable is an integer object with
operations + and - and you know the rest.
The most general object is one of a "class" type. This in C++
is a glorified struct with specialized data and member functions and
inheritance from base classes whose data and functions you want to apply. It is
similar with other OO languages.
An object in my learning of the term is an instance of a type
-- that is a variable or constant declared with that type.
Perhaps the more recent textbooks redefine the term. I'll let
other list members correct the holes or errors in my definition in modern
parlance.
And of course there are interfaces and templates and other
beasties you need to learn in the various languages, generalizing types yet
another level.
So happy hacking. For the procedural programmers accustomed to
COBOL or C or fortran or whatever, I hope this is a helpful intro. When I
first made the transition from procedural to OO, it was like turning a C
program inside-out -- or rather, OO style localized and hid more details of an
implementation so the C version was like inside-out C++ with nits all scattered
far and wide, even if the C program was well thought out.
Happy hacking all.
--le
----- Original Message -----
From: RicksPlace
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Friday, May 21, 2010 12:04 PM
Subject: Re: Vb.net or C#.net Tutorial Project
Hi Jim. I was doing COBOL when you were still watching Barney
- Grin! I started programming back in the 1970's with Cobol and all that
MainFrame Jazz so know exactly what you mean. I will be addressing OOP which is
really nothing more than thinking of everything as an object. A Subroutine is
an object, A Function Is An Object, An Array is an Object everything is pretty
much an object. And, objects have properties you can set and often they have
methods which are themselves subroutines or functions. Anyway it is not a
somplex as the gurus make it sound, it's pretty easy and intuitive after you
play with it a little.
Rick USA
----- Original Message -----
From: Homme, James
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Friday, May 21, 2010 8:25 AM
Subject: RE: Vb.net or C#.net Tutorial Project
Hi Rick,
First of all, thank you very much for taking the time to do
this. Secondly, please don't skim over the object stuff. Speaking for myself,
I'm an old Cobol programmer who has trouble thinking that way, so I need to get
over it. I'll subscribe to the list from home, which is where I'll load the
tools and do the work.
Jim
Jim Homme,
Usability Services,
Phone: 412-544-1810. Skype: jim.homme
Internal recipients, Read my accessibility blog. Discuss
accessibility here. Accessibility Wiki: Breaking news and accessibility advice
From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of RicksPlace
Sent: Friday, May 21, 2010 8:17 AM
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: Vb.net or C#.net Tutorial Project
Hi Guys: After the postings I think the following project
will hhelp get things off
the ground.
One:
We want a modular project so folks can pick and choose what
they want to include in
it and allow for skipping modules without impacting later
modules. This way you can
pick and choose features and technicals to include in the
project.
Two:
Start from the very beginning building upon our experiences.
Three:
Use both Vb.net and C# ( Pronounced CSharp) if possible.
To this end I will build a series of tutorials this weekend
and into next week
comprising Module01.
Module01 will just build the project and set up some
fundemental building blocks we
can expand on later.
It will consist of 4 Tutorials:
tutorial01:
Step01
Set up the IDE for Accessibility using my settings, those
on jamal's or the Elf's
site or your own settings as you prefer.
Step02
Add a ShortCut to Vb.net or C#.net to our DeskTop or
whatever the same thing would
be in Vista or Windows7. this way you can just click a
DeskTop Icon to open your IDE
for working on the project or any other Vb.net or C#
project you build.
Tutorial02:
Step01
Create A Project named WinformBasics or one of your own
choosing and
Structure the project by adding a Utilities Folder with a
Globals file and a Logger
Utility for use throughout all the subsequent modules.
Tutorial03:
Step01
Add a Windows Form called RootForm to the project and set
some of it's properties.
Step02
Make rootForm the Default Project form and get rid of the
automatically generated
Form1 Windows Form that was added when the Project was
created.
Tutorial04
Add a MenuBar to RootForm with a Menu called HotLinks.
Add one or more links as pull down items to the HotLinks
Menu that will take you to
someplace, Websites in my current thinking.
Once we have Module01 up and running we will discuss the
next set of tutorials which
will add a second menu to the MenuBar of the RootForm.This
Module will have features
that will demonstrate basic programming techniques like
working with strings,
Arrays, Looping and anything else you might have questions
about regarding the
fundemental Vb.net or C# statements. It might prove cool to
use this feature later in another series to create a project to display
programming tips and snipet code for complex issues and would fit well in with
a DataBase tutorial series if that is how you want to go later on.
we will also touch on creating a Class with Subroutines,
Functions and Properties and see how to use them. This is for the Raw Beginners
and unless otherwise indicated can be skim read by more experienced programmers
before we continue to the Third Module where we can dig into OOP more in-depth
or go into using Data Files and, or, a DataBase. So, look for the WinformBasics
project with 4, or so, file attachments. They will be txt files you can copy
and save. I think this is easier than trying to use the tutorials directly from
inside a e-list posting and how I
have done it in the past. Well, unless someone yells out
Stop! I will try and get something up this weekend and have this first Module
done by the end of the week.
Remember to speak up about anything because while we are on
one topic we can all discuss and have input into the material learned. Post up
any tips, suggestions or
questions while we are working on a module to help make
this series the best it can be in a short timeframe.
EndOfArticle
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