First, I have not even started building a project nor explaining
anything at all about programming other than to answer your
questions. I am just trying to finish up a tutorial on how to set up
the IDE for accessibility with a Screen Reader that is usable and a
short blurb on how to use Context Help to find out things aabout the
IDE while navigating around it. Basically the project has not
started yet, just trying to get people to make their IDEs accessible
enough not to turn them off while trying to work in it and customize
it as they become more experienced. No programming or concepts yet
except to answer any questions. Kick back and relax and make sure
your IDE is accessible and not messy. The project will be coming up
this week. And there will be plenty of chatter about technicals, all
be them basic, as it grows up. If enough folks make it through the
end of this module there will be another at a little higher level
and a third module and, if I don't give up, more modules until we
broach the limits of my understanding or patients. Likely we will
branch off into Website Development as soon as folks have a grip on
the IDE and some basic programming skills since that is where the
fun and action is these days.
Rick USA
----- Original Message -----
From: <mailto:lauraeaves@xxxxxxxxx>qubit
To: <mailto:programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2010 3:54 PM
Subject: Re: Vb.net or C#.net Tutorial Project
there was nothing about internal system operation -- i was talking
about the classes and objects c# uses from the interface to .NET in
order to do things.
I am not trying to start with system implementation, just trying to
help with some overview of what you are actually doing -- which
should probably follow your approach of starting with hello world or
whatever to get things off the ground.
Just trying to help contribute.
--le
----- Original Message -----
From: <mailto:ofbgmail@xxxxxxxxx>RicksPlace
To: <mailto:programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2010 1:31 PM
Subject: Re: Vb.net or C#.net Tutorial Project
Hi: Please drop the internal system operations within these threads.
We are going to start with building a project then looking at
assignment statements, variables, math functions, strings and other
things like looping, calling subroutines and functions and Arrays.
We will use simple UI controls at first and wrap up with some more
advanced UI Control basics. We will review some basic programming
techniques for the Raw Beginners before moving into Database and Binding.
so please don't get into all this advanced stuff. It will just
confuse the hell out of raw beginners and those are the folks this
tutorial series is for. Later we can get into intermediate level
stuff if you want.
Rick USA
----- Original Message -----
From: <mailto:lauraeaves@xxxxxxxxx>qubit
To: <mailto:programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2010 2:08 PM
Subject: Re: Vb.net or C#.net Tutorial Project
my handle is Q U B I T, as in quantum bit, not CUPID the one with
the arrows...although I think cupid might be more interesting...
As for terms, I would suggest looking at the terms in the language
specs on msdn for use in this class, as that will have a point of
reference other than someone's related experience in other
languages. I had not brought up the stack variables and such. It
is natural to thinking of everything at once when you first start
out, but for the sake of learning, I agree we should start with some
simple objects and show their use.
As I was reading the "getting started" in C# on microsoft.com, it
described the common language interface (CLI) -- at least I think
that is the acronym. This is the set of objects and resources common
to all the managed (or .NET) languages. I suggest getting familiar
with the CLI and terms relating to it and follow an orderly
progression to implement whatever project you are doing, and once
done the user will be able to apply that to his/her language of choice.
Is this acceptable?
--le
----- Original Message -----
From: <mailto:b.schulz@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>Bryan Schulz
To: <mailto:programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2010 12:41 PM
Subject: Re: Vb.net or C#.net Tutorial Project
hi,
we can do without people being smart asses as that will quickly turn
people off.
if cupid or anyone else wants to quivel over wording of this project
do it privately!
Bryan Schulz
----- Original Message -----
From: <mailto:ofbgmail@xxxxxxxxx>RicksPlace
To: <mailto:programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2010 6:11 AM
Subject: Re: Vb.net or C#.net Tutorial Project
That is exactly what we want. Ya, the type of pointer or reference
to an object depends on wheher it is stored on the Stack or that
other place where stuff can get stored. I forget all that internals
stuff since I have not looked at it in over 5 years now. It is not
relevant to the Vb.net or C# languages until you get into more
advanced programming. We can just use the ByVal or ByRef keywords in
a parm list if necessary. At least that is how it works in Vb.net.
In fact, you don't even need to specify ByVal or ByRef at all and
the language will put the appropriate type of reference into the
parm list automatically. At least it works like that in Vb.ne. If
CSharp is diferent post up since I have yet to even build my first
CSharp program within the past 5 years at least.
Rick USA
----- Original Message -----
From: <mailto:lauraeaves@xxxxxxxxx>qubit
To: <mailto:programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Friday, May 21, 2010 10:10 PM
Subject: Re: Vb.net or C#.net Tutorial Project
well, the address of a method or function is data, which is a
special pointer type object.
By executable statement, I mean something like an if-then-else or a
loop or an expression such as an assignment to a variable.
I'm trying to think what kind of object a statement would be. If the
language defines a value for the result of a statement -- like an
expression has a value after it is evaluated -- then a statement
could be thought of as a special case of an expression, which could
be thought of as a super object, constructed from from other objects.
Ok, there's a definition. If Python treats objects as you say then I
am just speculating how it must view different constructs in the
language. Never mind me, I'm just thinking out loud.
Happy hacking.
--le
----- Original Message -----
From: <mailto:donald.marang@xxxxxxxxx>Donald Marang
To: <mailto:programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Friday, May 21, 2010 7:44 PM
Subject: Re: Vb.net or C#.net Tutorial Project
I am not the person to respond to this question, I have not fully
written any Python programs. Obviously the language had to start
with something. If I can remember the tutorial examples, even some
of the punctuation was treated as an object! Perhaps I was
hallucinating? That's pretty strange. I am not sure what you mean
by executable statements. statements are thought of as methods of
objects. and even every subroutine / function is thought of as a
method I think. Even if not specified, they inherit basic
properties that we used to think of as the basic nature of all
functions. Similarly, each data type will have standard methods
defined, such as ToString. They are all considered objects, no
matter how simple. I should stop now before I confuse
everyone. After all, I am still trying to absorb all of this as
well, and have no experience.
Don Marang
From: <mailto:lauraeaves@xxxxxxxxx>qubit
Sent: Friday, May 21, 2010 7:56 PM
To: <mailto:programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: Vb.net or C#.net Tutorial Project
ah, ok, so python uses that paradigm. Does it consider executable
statements to also be objects? How about types? Do you declare
objects to be of a given type, or is everything typed on the
fly? And are the types attributes or are attributes objects? LOL
you have to have some basic special objects that do certain things,
or you wouldn't have a language.
I was going to use python in a little program just to learn it. It
sounds like an interesting little language.
--le
----- Original Message -----
From: <mailto:donald.marang@xxxxxxxxx>Donald Marang
To: <mailto:programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Friday, May 21, 2010 5:43 PM
Subject: Re: Vb.net or C#.net Tutorial Project
In Python tutorials, they go to great lengths to stress that
EVERYTHING is an object. I have trouble expressing or even getting
my head around their examples. But they make it clear,
EVERYTHING is an object!
Don Marang
From: <mailto:lauraeaves@xxxxxxxxx>qubit
Sent: Friday, May 21, 2010 4:59 PM
To: <mailto:programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: Vb.net or C#.net Tutorial Project
I wouldn't call everything an object -- it is true the word "object"
is overused and has been applied to many things. But in OO programs,
it is a set of data coupled with "methods" or functions defining
operations on that data. In the OO languages, all built in types
declare objects -- for example, something as simple as an int
variable is an integer object with operations + and - and you know the rest.
The most general object is one of a "class" type. This in C++ is a
glorified struct with specialized data and member functions and
inheritance from base classes whose data and functions you want to
apply. It is similar with other OO languages.
An object in my learning of the term is an instance of a type --
that is a variable or constant declared with that type.
Perhaps the more recent textbooks redefine the term. I'll let other
list members correct the holes or errors in my definition in modern parlance.
And of course there are interfaces and templates and other beasties
you need to learn in the various languages, generalizing types yet
another level.
So happy hacking. For the procedural programmers accustomed to
COBOL or C or fortran or whatever, I hope this is a helpful
intro. When I first made the transition from procedural to OO, it
was like turning a C program inside-out -- or rather, OO style
localized and hid more details of an implementation so the C version
was like inside-out C++ with nits all scattered far and wide, even
if the C program was well thought out.
Happy hacking all.
--le
----- Original Message -----
From: <mailto:ofbgmail@xxxxxxxxx>RicksPlace
To: <mailto:programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Friday, May 21, 2010 12:04 PM
Subject: Re: Vb.net or C#.net Tutorial Project
Hi Jim. I was doing COBOL when you were still watching Barney -
Grin! I started programming back in the 1970's with Cobol and all
that MainFrame Jazz so know exactly what you mean. I will be
addressing OOP which is really nothing more than thinking of
everything as an object. A Subroutine is an object, A Function Is An
Object, An Array is an Object everything is pretty much an object.
And, objects have properties you can set and often they have methods
which are themselves subroutines or functions. Anyway it is not a
somplex as the gurus make it sound, it's pretty easy and intuitive
after you play with it a little.
Rick USA
----- Original Message -----
From: <mailto:james.homme@xxxxxxxxxxxx>Homme, James
To: <mailto:programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Friday, May 21, 2010 8:25 AM
Subject: RE: Vb.net or C#.net Tutorial Project
Hi Rick,
First of all, thank you very much for taking the time to do this.
Secondly, please don't skim over the object stuff. Speaking for
myself, I'm an old Cobol programmer who has trouble thinking that
way, so I need to get over it. I'll subscribe to the list from home,
which is where I'll load the tools and do the work.
Jim
Jim Homme,
Usability Services,
Phone: 412-544-1810. Skype: jim.homme
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From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of RicksPlace
Sent: Friday, May 21, 2010 8:17 AM
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: Vb.net or C#.net Tutorial Project
Hi Guys: After the postings I think the following project will
hhelp get things off
the ground.
One:
We want a modular project so folks can pick and choose what they
want to include in
it and allow for skipping modules without impacting later modules.
This way you can
pick and choose features and technicals to include in the project.
Two:
Start from the very beginning building upon our experiences.
Three:
Use both Vb.net and C# ( Pronounced CSharp) if possible.
To this end I will build a series of tutorials this weekend and into
next week
comprising Module01.
Module01 will just build the project and set up some fundemental
building blocks we
can expand on later.
It will consist of 4 Tutorials:
tutorial01:
Step01
Set up the IDE for Accessibility using my settings, those on jamal's
or the Elf's
site or your own settings as you prefer.
Step02
Add a ShortCut to Vb.net or C#.net to our DeskTop or whatever the
same thing would
be in Vista or Windows7. this way you can just click a DeskTop Icon
to open your IDE
for working on the project or any other Vb.net or C# project you build.
Tutorial02:
Step01
Create A Project named WinformBasics or one of your own choosing and
Structure the project by adding a Utilities Folder with a Globals
file and a Logger
Utility for use throughout all the subsequent modules.
Tutorial03:
Step01
Add a Windows Form called RootForm to the project and set some of
it's properties.
Step02
Make rootForm the Default Project form and get rid of the
automatically generated
Form1 Windows Form that was added when the Project was created.
Tutorial04
Add a MenuBar to RootForm with a Menu called HotLinks.
Add one or more links as pull down items to the HotLinks Menu that
will take you to
someplace, Websites in my current thinking.
Once we have Module01 up and running we will discuss the next set of
tutorials which
will add a second menu to the MenuBar of the RootForm.This Module
will have features
that will demonstrate basic programming techniques like working with strings,
Arrays, Looping and anything else you might have questions about
regarding the
fundemental Vb.net or C# statements. It might prove cool to use this
feature later in another series to create a project to display
programming tips and snipet code for complex issues and would fit
well in with a DataBase tutorial series if that is how you want to go later on.
we will also touch on creating a Class with Subroutines, Functions
and Properties and see how to use them. This is for the Raw
Beginners and unless otherwise indicated can be skim read by more
experienced programmers before we continue to the Third Module where
we can dig into OOP more in-depth or go into using Data Files and,
or, a DataBase. So, look for the WinformBasics project with 4, or
so, file attachments. They will be txt files you can copy and save.
I think this is easier than trying to use the tutorials directly
from inside a e-list posting and how I
have done it in the past. Well, unless someone yells out Stop! I
will try and get something up this weekend and have this first
Module done by the end of the week.
Remember to speak up about anything because while we are on one
topic we can all discuss and have input into the material learned.
Post up any tips, suggestions or
questions while we are working on a module to help make this series
the best it can be in a short timeframe.
EndOfArticle
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