Re: or Tutorial Project

  • From: "qubit" <lauraeaves@xxxxxxxxx>
  • To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Sat, 22 May 2010 14:54:24 -0500

there was nothing about internal system operation -- i was talking about the 
classes and objects c# uses from the interface to .NET in order to do things.
I am not trying to start with system implementation, just trying to help with 
some overview of what you are actually doing -- which should probably follow 
your approach of starting with hello world or whatever to get things off the 
Just trying to help contribute.
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: RicksPlace 
  To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
  Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2010 1:31 PM
  Subject: Re: or Tutorial Project

  Hi: Please drop the internal system operations within these threads. 
  We are going to start with building a project then looking at assignment 
statements, variables, math functions, strings and other things like looping, 
calling subroutines and functions and Arrays. We will use simple UI controls at 
first and wrap up with some more advanced UI Control basics. We will review 
some basic programming techniques for the Raw Beginners before moving into 
Database and Binding.
   so please don't get into all this advanced stuff. It will just confuse the 
hell out of raw beginners and those are the folks this tutorial series is for. 
Later we can get into intermediate level stuff if you want. 
  Rick USA
    ----- Original Message ----- 
    From: qubit 
    To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
    Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2010 2:08 PM
    Subject: Re: or Tutorial Project

    my handle is Q U B I T, as in quantum bit, not CUPID the one with the 
arrows...although I think cupid might be more interesting...

    As for terms, I would suggest looking at the terms in the language specs on 
msdn for use in this class, as that will have a point of reference other than 
someone's related experience in other languages.  I had not brought up the 
stack variables and such.  It is natural to thinking of everything at once when 
you first start out, but for the sake of learning, I agree we should start with 
some simple objects and show their use.

    As I was reading the "getting started" in C# on, it described 
the common language interface (CLI) -- at least I think that is the acronym. 
This is the set of objects and resources common to all the managed (or .NET) 
languages.  I suggest getting familiar with the CLI and terms relating to it 
and follow an orderly progression to implement whatever project you are doing, 
and once done the user will be able to apply that to his/her language of choice.

    Is this acceptable?

      ----- Original Message ----- 
      From: Bryan Schulz 
      To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
      Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2010 12:41 PM
      Subject: Re: or Tutorial Project


      we can do without people being smart asses as that will quickly turn 
people off.
      if cupid or anyone else wants to quivel over wording of this project do 
it privately!

      Bryan Schulz

        ----- Original Message ----- 
        From: RicksPlace 
        To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
        Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2010 6:11 AM
        Subject: Re: or Tutorial Project

        That is exactly what we want. Ya, the type of pointer or reference to 
an object depends on wheher it is stored on the Stack or that other place where 
stuff can get stored. I forget all that internals stuff since I have not looked 
at it in over 5 years now. It is not relevant to the or C# languages 
until you get into more advanced programming. We can just use the ByVal or 
ByRef keywords in a parm list if necessary. At least that is how it works in In fact, you don't even need to specify ByVal or ByRef at all and the 
language will put the appropriate type of reference into the parm list 
automatically. At least it works like that in If CSharp is diferent post 
up since I have yet to even build my first CSharp program within the past 5 
years at least.
        Rick USA
          ----- Original Message ----- 
          From: qubit 
          To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
          Sent: Friday, May 21, 2010 10:10 PM
          Subject: Re: or Tutorial Project

          well, the address of a method or function is data, which is a special 
pointer type object.
          By executable statement, I mean something like an if-then-else or a 
loop or an expression such as an assignment to a variable.
          I'm trying to think what kind of object a statement would be. If the 
language defines a value for the result of a statement -- like an expression 
has a value after it is evaluated -- then a statement could be thought of as a 
special case of an expression, which could be thought of as a super object, 
constructed from from other objects.
          Ok, there's a definition. If Python treats objects as you say then I 
am just speculating how it must view different constructs in the language.  
Never mind me, I'm just thinking out loud.
          Happy hacking.

            ----- Original Message ----- 
            From: Donald Marang 
            To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
            Sent: Friday, May 21, 2010 7:44 PM
            Subject: Re: or Tutorial Project

            I am not the person to respond to this question, I have not fully 
written any Python programs.  Obviously the language had to start with 
something.  If I can remember the tutorial examples, even some of the 
punctuation was treated as an object!  Perhaps I was hallucinating?  That's 
pretty strange.  I am not sure what you mean by executable statements.  
statements are thought of as methods of objects.  and even every subroutine /  
function is thought of as a method I think.  Even if not specified, they 
inherit basic properties that we used to think of as the basic nature of all 
functions.  Similarly, each data type will have standard methods defined, such 
as ToString.  They are all considered objects, no matter how simple.  I should 
stop now before I confuse everyone.  After all, I am still trying to absorb all 
of this as well, and have no experience.  

            Don Marang

            From: qubit 
            Sent: Friday, May 21, 2010 7:56 PM
            To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
            Subject: Re: or Tutorial Project

            ah, ok, so python uses that paradigm.  Does it consider executable 
statements to also be objects? How about types? Do you declare objects to be of 
a given type, or is everything typed on the fly?  And are the types attributes 
or are attributes objects? LOL you have to have some basic special objects that 
do certain things, or you wouldn't have a language.
            I was going to use python in a little program just to learn it. It 
sounds like an interesting little language.

              ----- Original Message ----- 
              From: Donald Marang 
              To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
              Sent: Friday, May 21, 2010 5:43 PM
              Subject: Re: or Tutorial Project

              In Python tutorials, they go to great lengths to stress that 
EVERYTHING is an object.  I have trouble expressing or even getting my head 
around their            examples.  But they make it clear, EVERYTHING is an 

              Don Marang

              From: qubit 
              Sent: Friday, May 21, 2010 4:59 PM
              To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
              Subject: Re: or Tutorial Project

              I wouldn't call everything an object -- it is true the word 
"object" is overused and has been applied to many things. But in OO programs, 
it is a set of data coupled with "methods" or functions defining operations on 
that data. In the OO languages, all built in types declare objects -- for 
example, something as simple as an int variable is an integer object with 
operations + and - and you know the rest.

              The most general object is one of a "class" type.   This in C++ 
is a glorified struct with specialized data and member functions and 
inheritance from base classes whose data and functions you want to apply. It is 
similar with other OO languages.
              An object in my learning of the term is an instance of a type -- 
that is a variable or constant declared with that type.
              Perhaps the more recent textbooks redefine the term. I'll let 
other list members correct the holes or errors in my definition in modern 

              And of course there are interfaces and templates and other 
beasties you need to learn in the various languages, generalizing types yet 
another level.

              So happy hacking.  For the procedural programmers accustomed to 
COBOL or C or fortran or whatever, I hope this is a helpful intro.  When I 
first made the transition from procedural to OO, it was like turning a C 
program inside-out -- or rather, OO style localized and hid more details of an 
implementation so the C version was like inside-out C++ with nits all scattered 
far and wide, even if the C program was well thought out.

              Happy hacking all.

                ----- Original Message ----- 
                From: RicksPlace 
                To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
                Sent: Friday, May 21, 2010 12:04 PM
                Subject: Re: or Tutorial Project

                Hi Jim. I was doing COBOL when you were still watching Barney - 
Grin! I started programming back in the 1970's with Cobol and all that 
MainFrame Jazz so know exactly what you mean. I will be addressing OOP which is 
really nothing more than thinking of everything as an object. A Subroutine is 
an object, A Function Is An Object, An Array is an Object everything is pretty 
much an object. And, objects have properties you can set and often they have 
methods which are themselves subroutines or functions. Anyway it is not a 
somplex as the gurus make it sound, it's pretty easy and intuitive after you 
play with it a little.
                Rick USA
                  ----- Original Message ----- 
                  From: Homme, James 
                  To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
                  Sent: Friday, May 21, 2010 8:25 AM
                  Subject: RE: or Tutorial Project

                  Hi Rick,

                  First of all, thank you very much for taking the time to do 
this. Secondly, please don't skim over the object stuff. Speaking for myself, 
I'm an old Cobol programmer who has trouble thinking that way, so I need to get 
over it. I'll subscribe to the list from home, which is where I'll load the 
tools and do the work.




                  Jim Homme,

                  Usability Services,

                  Phone: 412-544-1810. Skype: jim.homme

                  Internal recipients,  Read my accessibility blog. Discuss 
accessibility here. Accessibility Wiki: Breaking news and accessibility advice


                  From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
[mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of RicksPlace
                  Sent: Friday, May 21, 2010 8:17 AM
                  To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
                  Subject: Re: or Tutorial Project


                  Hi Guys: After the postings I think  the following project 
will hhelp get things off 

                  the ground. 
                  We want a modular project so folks can pick and choose what 
they want to include in 

                  it and allow for skipping modules without impacting later 
modules. This way you can 

                  pick and choose features and technicals to include in the 
                  Start from the very beginning building upon our experiences.
                  Use both and C# ( Pronounced CSharp) if possible.
                  To this end I will build a series of tutorials this weekend 
and into next week 


                  comprising Module01.
                  Module01 will just build the project and set up some 
fundemental building blocks we 


                  can expand on later.
                  It will consist of 4 Tutorials:
                  Set up the IDE for Accessibility using my settings, those on 
jamal's or the Elf's 


                  site or your own settings as you prefer.
                  Add a ShortCut to or to our DeskTop or whatever 
the same thing would 


                  be in Vista or Windows7. this way you can just click a 
DeskTop Icon to open your IDE 


                  for working on the project or any other or C# project 
you build.
                  Create A Project named WinformBasics or one of your own 
choosing and 
                  Structure the project by adding a Utilities Folder with a 
Globals file and a Logger 


                  Utility for use throughout all the subsequent modules.
                  Add a Windows Form called RootForm to the project and set 
some of it's properties.
                  Make rootForm the Default Project form and get rid of the 
automatically generated 


                  Form1 Windows Form that was added when the Project was 
                  Add a MenuBar to RootForm with a Menu called HotLinks.
                  Add one or more links as pull down items to the HotLinks Menu 
that will take you to 

                  someplace, Websites in my current thinking.
                  Once we have Module01 up and running we will discuss the next 
set of tutorials which 

                  will add a second menu to the MenuBar of the RootForm.This 
Module will have features 

                  that will demonstrate basic programming techniques like 
working with strings, 

                  Arrays, Looping and anything else you might have questions 
about regarding the 

                  fundemental or C# statements. It might prove cool to 
use this feature later in another series to create a project to display 
programming tips and snipet code for complex issues and would fit well in with 
a DataBase tutorial series if that is how you want to go later on.
                  we will also touch on creating a Class with Subroutines, 
Functions and Properties and see how to use them. This is for the Raw Beginners 
and unless otherwise indicated can be skim read by more experienced programmers 
before we continue to the Third Module where we can dig into OOP more in-depth 
or go into using Data Files and, or, a DataBase. So, look for the WinformBasics 
project with 4, or so, file attachments. They will be txt files you can copy 
and save. I think this is easier than trying to use the tutorials directly from 
inside a e-list posting and how I 

                  have done it in the past. Well, unless someone yells out 
Stop! I will try and get something up this weekend and have this first Module 
done by the end of the week.
                  Remember to speak up about anything because while we are on 
one topic we can all  discuss and have input into the material learned. Post up 
any tips, suggestions or

                  questions while we are working on a module to help make this 
series the best it can be in a short timeframe.




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