Re: Vb.net or C#.net Tutorial Project
- From: "Bryan Schulz" <b.schulz@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Sat, 22 May 2010 12:41:24 -0500
hi,
we can do without people being smart asses as that will quickly turn people off.
if cupid or anyone else wants to quivel over wording of this project do it
privately!
Bryan Schulz
----- Original Message -----
From: RicksPlace
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2010 6:11 AM
Subject: Re: Vb.net or C#.net Tutorial Project
That is exactly what we want. Ya, the type of pointer or reference to an
object depends on wheher it is stored on the Stack or that other place where
stuff can get stored. I forget all that internals stuff since I have not looked
at it in over 5 years now. It is not relevant to the Vb.net or C# languages
until you get into more advanced programming. We can just use the ByVal or
ByRef keywords in a parm list if necessary. At least that is how it works in
Vb.net. In fact, you don't even need to specify ByVal or ByRef at all and the
language will put the appropriate type of reference into the parm list
automatically. At least it works like that in Vb.ne. If CSharp is diferent post
up since I have yet to even build my first CSharp program within the past 5
years at least.
Rick USA
----- Original Message -----
From: qubit
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Friday, May 21, 2010 10:10 PM
Subject: Re: Vb.net or C#.net Tutorial Project
well, the address of a method or function is data, which is a special
pointer type object.
By executable statement, I mean something like an if-then-else or a loop or
an expression such as an assignment to a variable.
I'm trying to think what kind of object a statement would be. If the
language defines a value for the result of a statement -- like an expression
has a value after it is evaluated -- then a statement could be thought of as a
special case of an expression, which could be thought of as a super object,
constructed from from other objects.
Ok, there's a definition. If Python treats objects as you say then I am
just speculating how it must view different constructs in the language. Never
mind me, I'm just thinking out loud.
Happy hacking.
--le
----- Original Message -----
From: Donald Marang
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Friday, May 21, 2010 7:44 PM
Subject: Re: Vb.net or C#.net Tutorial Project
I am not the person to respond to this question, I have not fully written
any Python programs. Obviously the language had to start with something. If I
can remember the tutorial examples, even some of the punctuation was treated as
an object! Perhaps I was hallucinating? That's pretty strange. I am not sure
what you mean by executable statements. statements are thought of as methods
of objects. and even every subroutine / function is thought of as a method I
think. Even if not specified, they inherit basic properties that we used to
think of as the basic nature of all functions. Similarly, each data type will
have standard methods defined, such as ToString. They are all considered
objects, no matter how simple. I should stop now before I confuse everyone.
After all, I am still trying to absorb all of this as well, and have no
experience.
Don Marang
From: qubit
Sent: Friday, May 21, 2010 7:56 PM
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: Vb.net or C#.net Tutorial Project
ah, ok, so python uses that paradigm. Does it consider executable
statements to also be objects? How about types? Do you declare objects to be of
a given type, or is everything typed on the fly? And are the types attributes
or are attributes objects? LOL you have to have some basic special objects that
do certain things, or you wouldn't have a language.
I was going to use python in a little program just to learn it. It sounds
like an interesting little language.
--le
----- Original Message -----
From: Donald Marang
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Friday, May 21, 2010 5:43 PM
Subject: Re: Vb.net or C#.net Tutorial Project
In Python tutorials, they go to great lengths to stress that EVERYTHING
is an object. I have trouble expressing or even getting my head around their
examples. But they make it clear, EVERYTHING is an object!
Don Marang
From: qubit
Sent: Friday, May 21, 2010 4:59 PM
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: Vb.net or C#.net Tutorial Project
I wouldn't call everything an object -- it is true the word "object" is
overused and has been applied to many things. But in OO programs, it is a set
of data coupled with "methods" or functions defining operations on that data.
In the OO languages, all built in types declare objects -- for example,
something as simple as an int variable is an integer object with operations +
and - and you know the rest.
The most general object is one of a "class" type. This in C++ is a
glorified struct with specialized data and member functions and inheritance
from base classes whose data and functions you want to apply. It is similar
with other OO languages.
An object in my learning of the term is an instance of a type -- that
is a variable or constant declared with that type.
Perhaps the more recent textbooks redefine the term. I'll let other
list members correct the holes or errors in my definition in modern parlance.
And of course there are interfaces and templates and other beasties you
need to learn in the various languages, generalizing types yet another level.
So happy hacking. For the procedural programmers accustomed to COBOL
or C or fortran or whatever, I hope this is a helpful intro. When I first made
the transition from procedural to OO, it was like turning a C program
inside-out -- or rather, OO style localized and hid more details of an
implementation so the C version was like inside-out C++ with nits all scattered
far and wide, even if the C program was well thought out.
Happy hacking all.
--le
----- Original Message -----
From: RicksPlace
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Friday, May 21, 2010 12:04 PM
Subject: Re: Vb.net or C#.net Tutorial Project
Hi Jim. I was doing COBOL when you were still watching Barney - Grin!
I started programming back in the 1970's with Cobol and all that MainFrame Jazz
so know exactly what you mean. I will be addressing OOP which is really nothing
more than thinking of everything as an object. A Subroutine is an object, A
Function Is An Object, An Array is an Object everything is pretty much an
object. And, objects have properties you can set and often they have methods
which are themselves subroutines or functions. Anyway it is not a somplex as
the gurus make it sound, it's pretty easy and intuitive after you play with it
a little.
Rick USA
----- Original Message -----
From: Homme, James
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Friday, May 21, 2010 8:25 AM
Subject: RE: Vb.net or C#.net Tutorial Project
Hi Rick,
First of all, thank you very much for taking the time to do this.
Secondly, please don't skim over the object stuff. Speaking for myself, I'm an
old Cobol programmer who has trouble thinking that way, so I need to get over
it. I'll subscribe to the list from home, which is where I'll load the tools
and do the work.
Jim
Jim Homme,
Usability Services,
Phone: 412-544-1810. Skype: jim.homme
Internal recipients, Read my accessibility blog. Discuss
accessibility here. Accessibility Wiki: Breaking news and accessibility advice
From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of RicksPlace
Sent: Friday, May 21, 2010 8:17 AM
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: Vb.net or C#.net Tutorial Project
Hi Guys: After the postings I think the following project will
hhelp get things off
the ground.
One:
We want a modular project so folks can pick and choose what they
want to include in
it and allow for skipping modules without impacting later modules.
This way you can
pick and choose features and technicals to include in the project.
Two:
Start from the very beginning building upon our experiences.
Three:
Use both Vb.net and C# ( Pronounced CSharp) if possible.
To this end I will build a series of tutorials this weekend and
into next week
comprising Module01.
Module01 will just build the project and set up some fundemental
building blocks we
can expand on later.
It will consist of 4 Tutorials:
tutorial01:
Step01
Set up the IDE for Accessibility using my settings, those on
jamal's or the Elf's
site or your own settings as you prefer.
Step02
Add a ShortCut to Vb.net or C#.net to our DeskTop or whatever the
same thing would
be in Vista or Windows7. this way you can just click a DeskTop Icon
to open your IDE
for working on the project or any other Vb.net or C# project you
build.
Tutorial02:
Step01
Create A Project named WinformBasics or one of your own choosing
and
Structure the project by adding a Utilities Folder with a Globals
file and a Logger
Utility for use throughout all the subsequent modules.
Tutorial03:
Step01
Add a Windows Form called RootForm to the project and set some of
it's properties.
Step02
Make rootForm the Default Project form and get rid of the
automatically generated
Form1 Windows Form that was added when the Project was created.
Tutorial04
Add a MenuBar to RootForm with a Menu called HotLinks.
Add one or more links as pull down items to the HotLinks Menu that
will take you to
someplace, Websites in my current thinking.
Once we have Module01 up and running we will discuss the next set
of tutorials which
will add a second menu to the MenuBar of the RootForm.This Module
will have features
that will demonstrate basic programming techniques like working
with strings,
Arrays, Looping and anything else you might have questions about
regarding the
fundemental Vb.net or C# statements. It might prove cool to use
this feature later in another series to create a project to display programming
tips and snipet code for complex issues and would fit well in with a DataBase
tutorial series if that is how you want to go later on.
we will also touch on creating a Class with Subroutines, Functions
and Properties and see how to use them. This is for the Raw Beginners and
unless otherwise indicated can be skim read by more experienced programmers
before we continue to the Third Module where we can dig into OOP more in-depth
or go into using Data Files and, or, a DataBase. So, look for the WinformBasics
project with 4, or so, file attachments. They will be txt files you can copy
and save. I think this is easier than trying to use the tutorials directly from
inside a e-list posting and how I
have done it in the past. Well, unless someone yells out Stop! I
will try and get something up this weekend and have this first Module done by
the end of the week.
Remember to speak up about anything because while we are on one
topic we can all discuss and have input into the material learned. Post up any
tips, suggestions or
questions while we are working on a module to help make this series
the best it can be in a short timeframe.
EndOfArticle
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