[patriots] Re: News re Holocaust
- From: "Rays1" <rayspost@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <judith@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, <patriots@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2014 18:40:41 +0100
Hello Judith,
("So if your version of the Holocaust is so true
then why can we 'deniers' not question it
freely...)
From the outset, may I just point out that you are
mistaken in claiming that I have given "my view
of" 'the holocaust',
as 'true' - or not - nor have I called you or
anyone else a "holocaust denier". Also, I'm not
"going" anywhere just at this
point as reason appears still possible...hopefully
I don't know what actually happened (after all, I
wasn't there!) and have AGREED that the figures
are open to question.
So, the rest of your email is somewhat redundant
since I too question quite a bit of it as well,
don't you think?
I raise some reasonable points or questions is
all.
At least one of my emails on this matter has not
been delivered to the group so this discussion has
become
somewhat distorted. Maybe they went missing
somewhere on the wider 'interweb', - I dunno!
I merely said that my own blood relatives WERE
there, and told me that it DID happen. People were
rounded up en-masse
for the flimsiest of reasons. We saw the same with
the Stalinist communists and even children
"denouncing" their own family members.
I believe what my relatives told me - and still do
- unless some credible evidence is presented that
may be researched and independently
reproduced and verified to the contrary
I understand exactly what you are saying about the
holocaust being used as 'moral justification' for
virtually anything. We need witness
only the decades long atrocities against the
Palestinians to know this so please give me a
little more credence than that. Another relative
used to disagree about this from time to time - he
blamed the "Joos" for just about everything too!
- Including the weather I sometimes thought.
Reasoned debate does not mean falling out though,
you know? We should all have the maturity to
understand that by now I hope.
It's my belief, rightly or wrongly, that we are
once again heading directly down this fascist path
that is historically known to produce only
evil and persecution of the many and the ever
furtherance of those who regard themselves as the
"Elites" and "Leaders". The only difference is
that the means to accomplish this are now beyond
the dreams of Nazis and Stazis, (and all the
rest), and it is much more underhandedly
sophisticated in this age than then. And now
massively more dangerous
Take a look at the MP's and their lackeys
proposing another 10% rise for themselves on top
of the last 11% they recently awarded themselves -
whilst lordly decreeing zero for most everyone
else
A useful reference is here:
http://www.press.uchicago.edu/Misc/Chicago/511928.
html
reading it, one sees a remarkable similarity with
the movement of todays society
Our sovereignty is essentially lost just weeks
from now but, what is that fires up resistance and
debate in this group much more than
anything else? ....Why,.. ."The Joos" of course!
...and statistics of how many deaths there
actually were - or not - as the case may be
blah, Blah......
I say again, it is distracting irrelevance that
should be put on the back boiler. It's much like
the farmer arguing with his sons about the
colour of the hens eggs.... as the barn is burning
down behind them all
The question of the newspaper advert is the best
practical option I've seen so far: see below.
This is the kind of thing that I'd prefer to see
more of rather than fruitless accusations. I think
this poster could be a good one to distribute
locally, maybe with a slight change of wording
but, it's pretty good!
Ray
a
a
From: patriots-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:patriots-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf
Of judith
Sent: 21 September 2014 16:31
To: patriots@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [patriots] Re: News re Holocaust
Hi Ray
Before you go please allow me to add something to
the debate.
If we do not understand the power and the agenda
behind the holocaust narrative,
then we will never be able to understand who or
what we are fighting today or even how we have
arrived at this point.
The holocaust has been used as the ultimate moral
justification for multiculturalism and non white
immigration. Irmin Vinson in his book 'Some
thoughts on Hitler & Other Essays', writes, If the
Holocaust is . the Jewish collective memory of
WWII, then we who are not Jews are thinking about
our past with someone else's memory, seeing both
the past and its implications for the present
through Jewish eyes rather than our own.
The Holocaust seeks to indict all Westerners
[mainly whites] as having an inborn hatred of Jews
- anti -Semitism and racism - which has enabled
the imposition of draconian race/hate laws upon
all western nations and subsequent removal of free
speech. Just to question the Holocaust is an
imprisonable offence and as Sylivia Stolz, Simon
Shepherd and others discovered 'the truth is no
defence'. So if your version of the Holocaust is
so true then why can we 'deniers' not question it
freely, unless of course, it is the biggest lie
ever told?
Judith
On 21/09/14 12:35, Rays1 wrote:
Jack,
With the best will in the world, This is becoming
fruitless as the norms of debate seem to be being
a little bypassed
You are STILL focussing upon "The Joos" figures
alone whilst my original point was, why dont we
examine the issues
involved in locking up masses of population
without cause? And that this is what is in store
for all of us in the end
I already agreed with you that those figures are
open to dispute and thus I acknowledged that it
was NOT an "irrelevant detail"
but, you respond to me as if I have NOT agreed
with that!?
When I in actual fact, AGREE with you; you
nevertheless respond as if I had NOT agreed with
you...the question then
becomes; why are you persisting in creating causes
for us to pointlessly 'fight' rather than continue
reasoned debate as to what we
may logistically achieve from here?
We've had this before, Jack and you already know
that I dislike such adversarial conflict for
little apparent reason.
As before, I simply want to achieve something,.
logistically - to help save my country from what I
perceive to be it's bleak
future in the EU
You sent a list of "figures" but, Jack, they are
no more reliable than if I drew up and sent you a
list of figures to the opposite
If this is going to go down the route of
disrespect and ridicule of me simply because I
pose a question,
then we have reached an 'end-stage', it would seem
Just take me off this list then?
All the best for you and yours in the future
whatever the case ....................
Ray
From: patriots-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:patriots-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf
Of Jack Lewis
Sent: 20 September 2014 19:01
To: patriots@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [patriots] Re: News re Holocaust
That's a hell of an admission! From 6 million down
to 271,000 and you just glossed over it an
irrelevant detail.
German's enemies were forced in the same we forced
Germans, Italians and Japs into internment camps.
One of things missing from your emails on this
issue is 'evidence'. There is no point in quoting
the 'official' line as this is exactly what our
evidence contradicts. If you want to continue this
discussion you have to show where our evidence is
wrong .
Mike has already given you much to consider but I
bet you don't look at it.
Jack
On 20/09/2014 18:38, Rays1 wrote:
Hello Jack,
As I say, the numbers may well be in dispute, I
agree but, the point remains that people being
*forced* into camps
is still always overlooked don't you think?
We may all soon be forced into them as well I
think. The underlying and over-arching fascist
attitude towards masses of
the population is what I'm getting at. It's this
we are facing again - albeit in a much more
sophisticated and computerised
manner that the Nazis and Stalinists could only
dream of achieving
What we are dealing with is deeper than
distracting arguments over things like the numbers
involved
The NOW is what concerns me more...and how we all
deal with it and respond to it logistically, hence
my suggestion for
wide-spread leaflets and such, you know?
Ray
From: patriots-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:patriots-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf
Of Jack Lewis
Sent: 20 September 2014 15:43
To: patriots@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [patriots] Re: News re Holocaust
Hi Ray,
Mike mentioned the Red Cross having
representatives in EVERY camp - the Red Cross
produced a document that showed the total death
toll over all the camps was just over 271,301
people. See document below.
Jack
http://truedemocracyparty.net/wp-content/uploads/a
uschwitz.jpg
Calm down Ray, no-one is saying anything of the
sort. Of course there were dead and dying, and of
course the scenes encountered by the camp
liberators were horrifying, but this was only in
some of the camps. These particular camps just so
happened to have typhus and other epidemics raging
through them and had not been receiving food or
medical supplies for months as a direct result of
the allies bombing the supply lines. This is a
matter of record, indeed the Red Cross, who had
representatives in ALL of the camps, said that the
allied bombing did more harm to the inmates in
those those particular camps during the last three
or four months leading up to their liberation than
the Germans had done throughout the entire war.
That is what your friends and relatives witnessed
as opposed to the hysterical lies and propaganda
that you are spouting. Did you not know that the
allied medical corps (both US and British) carried
out post mortems on thousands of the dead and
reported that the inmates had died from typhus and
other diseases and malnutrition? Not one single
case of death by gas poisoning could be found.
None! Their reports can still be seen today/ Your
American officers were absolutely correct to be
disgusted but, acting on pure impulse,
unfortunately they took their disgust out on the
wrong people.
As for you reference to "gas ovens", they were
actually coke fired crematoria, designed and built
to cremate people who died in the camps. Bodies
could not be buried, particularly at Auschwitz,
because of the risk of Typhus so they were burned.
There were only a small number of crematoria, and
certainly nowhere near enough to burn the
ridiculous numbers touted by the propagandists.
They have done one heck of a job on you Ray. Where
were you when Jack was presenting you with all of
the evidence that blows these lies to pieces? With
respect I really do suggest it is time you take
your gas tinted spectacles off and do some serious
research into this. Until you have done so then I
hardly think you are in a position to make such
judgements as you have here.
Mike.
On 20/09/14 14:33, Rays1 wrote:
Now, I've respect for all and both here, and John
T but, consider me as 'Joe Public' for a second,
ok?
From this 'devils advocate' position, you appear
to be saying that all the concentration camp
evidence of decimated
and starved bodies (many even being bull-dozed
into pits) - which all older folks know of, - "was
all edited and revamped
in Hollywood by Alfred Hitchcock". The
archaeological, physical, human bodily remains in
purpose-built and intentionally ENGINEERED
gas ovens, and ALL photographic records which
openly support and prove the veracity of my
relatives personal witness, should now be
instantly dismissed as just so much BS ...and just
because you claim,.... "The film footage of allies
entering the concentration camps
was all edited and revamped in Hollywood by Alfred
Hitchcock"
Have you any idea how completely "NUTSO" that
might sound to everyone else?
Just listen for a second, Ok?. I have family
relatives that were amongst those that actually
entered those camps as part of
our army and who personally witnessed those
atrocities on the ground - and at that time. They
told me that some American
officers were so utterly disgusted at what they
witnessed that they simply dragged out the nearest
Nazi in charge and summarily
hung them on the spot. (Clearly a war crime too
but, one of the few that might be somewhat
understandable?)
It was clear that some of ours did exactly the
same
My wifes Grandad experienced both world wars -
sadly, died at 95yrs -...Am I, or the public at
large, supposed to
abruptly drop our life beliefs and our loved ones
honest testimony to us as 'delusions' and instead
embrace your text?
So, my relatives lied to me, did they ?!.. their
senses somehow betrayed them and they were simply
unaware that they were
in fact, taking an unwitting part in........film
footage of allies entering the concentration camps
was all edited and revamped in
Hollywood by Alfred Hitchcock.."
Oh, I see!...So they were all 'deluded' and did
not realise that all their tramping and fighting
across France for weeks on end
beforehand was actually doing no more than playing
a bit part in a Hollywood plot devised by Alfred
Hitchcock?!!....Really...?
Oh, Give me a break.
Ray
From: patriots-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:patriots-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf
Of john TIMBRELL
Sent: 20 September 2014 08:08
To: cpead@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Cc: patriots@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [patriots] Re: News re Holocaust
Thanks for your reply Chris. Have you any
knowledge of the cotent of the film which would
contradict my suspicion which is, that the film
showed the true position of the camps.i.e no gas
chambers and that the piles of bodies were the
result of starvation and disease.
I suspect the Jews knew this and stopped it's
circulation.
If I am right I suspect they will try and stop
it's transmission and it will need people like
yourself to force it's transmission.
There was another reel of film which Hitchcock did
not use.
If the Imperial War Museum did an unbiased job of
restoring the film and including the added reel
then it may show some true light on the subject
and awaken the present public to the lies spread
by the Jews and now supported by Cameron. JohnT
_____
From: cpead@xxxxxxxxxxxx
To: johntimbrell@xxxxxxxxxx;
patriots@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [patriots] Re: News re Holocaust
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2014 11:08:34 +0100
Hello John,
The film footage of allies entering the
concentration camps was all edited and revamped in
Hollywood by Alfred Hitchcock, including the
wheeling of dead Germans to passed off as Jews -
see attached file - Chris
From: patriots-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:patriots-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf
Of john TIMBRELL
Sent: 18 September 2014 08:45
To: patriots@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [patriots] News re Holocaust
BBC radio 4 0815 + 18th Sept. Hear now on iPlayer.
Review of previously unshown film restored at the
British war museum.
This is material filmed by ordinary people but
specially trained as cameramen who accompanied
soldiers as they entered the concentration camps.
The material was collated by Alfred Hitchcock but
was never shown in a completed form. No reason
given as yet.
The reviewer said there were heaps of bodies and
people in a terrible state.
A decision was made to keep the people within the
camps to feed them because there was no food
outside the camps. Plus the camps were riddled
with typhus and they did not wish the disease to
be spread outside the camps.
I'm unsure of the following. The man commissioning
the film was named Bernstein. Perhaps he was the
person who decided not to show the film. JohnT
_____
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