Allison To answer your question about the op-amp: It's a TL974, $82 ea at qty 10, which is the minimm I buy of anything I think I might reuse in another project. Noise: 4nv/sqr(hz); plenty good for this application. ----- Original Message ----- From: Joe Rocci To: minima@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2014 11:57 AM Subject: [minima] Re: A New Approach Allison Doubly balanced first mixer, with the caveat that the term is somewhat meaningless when using bus switches. There is no 'balance' to speak of in with respect to the LO signal. It's just 'isolated'. The mixer is a quad switch configuration, similar to the FET mixer Ed Oxner developed years ago. Balanced transformer coupling on input and output. The PD is also a switching architecture with bus switches. It's transformer coupled on the IF side and direct, single-ended coupled on the audio side. The higher TX drive level is made possible by the high amplifier output capability; eases post-amplifier design with about 10 db less gain requirement in the cascade. Op-amps are some cheap, rail-to-rail, low current, low noise quad I found searching Digikey. I'll get that info for you. In my version, I plan to use a single Si5351 for LO and BFO, but dual Si570's could also be made to work for slightly better noise & spur performance (also a whole lot more current). My vision is actually a small, full-featured rig that can be battery powered for portable outings. I started to put together the block diagram and schematic for the whole gizmo and will post it to my site when available. Meanwhile, I can post schematic fragments here. The IF amp is really one of the keys, as are the mixer/product detector, which have already been presented here. I can post them as attachments on request, one-by-one if you'd like. What I don't want to do is create a major schism on the present Minima effort. I think it's really important that it gets 'finalized' and a reproducible PCB designed. Joe ----- Original Message ----- From: allison To: minima@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2014 11:31 AM Subject: [minima] Re: A New Approach On 12/10/14, 9:53 AM, Joe Rocci wrote: For the last several months, I've been quietly and slowly developing the components for a different approach to the Minima. I've written about some of the concepts here, but I never really laid out the whole thing. At the risk of creating a major fork in this group, I'm going to describe where I'm going. If there's serious interest, I'll put all this up on my own web site, along with a discussion forum for anyone who wants to follow along. Joe, I for one am curious. Here are the key components: 1) A high-level front-end mixer based on my Quad FST3257 bus switch design. It accepts Si570 or Si5351 drive levels. Doubly or singly balanced? 2) An IF at 9 mhz, but changeable according to the builder's tastes. I'm considering an optional dual xtal filter for SSB/CW, using bus switches for filter switching. I use 8 or 9mhz most frequently as crystals are cheap and 9mhz is far enough from most common bands. Its also high enough that minimal filtering assures no trouble with images to at least 6M. 3) A totally different BiDi amp architecture. This one uses a single Hybrid Cascode amplifier with a complimentary NPN-PNP output stage. It easily develops 30 dB of gain, up to +10dbm of uncompressed output power, excellent input and output match, and about 3.5db noise figure according to LTSpice. It only draws about 18 ma. It has well over 70 db of voltage-controlled gain range that can be used for TX ALC as well as Rx AGC. This single amp is turned around from the Rx direction to the Tx direction with another FST3257 bus switch. It works very nicely. I've done similar( HYCAS+ and 4066 switches) with excellent results. Id expect the bus switches (15 years ago not available) would work very well. They really beat diodes for low power needs. I found with the 4066 that there was a little cross talk and I had to keep the input and output on separate packages and used the excess in parallel for lower Ron (they are cheap). 4) A product detector made with another FST3257. It also accepts Si570/Si5351 drive levels. Switching type? 5) Audio amplifier chain that is made with a single package of low-noise op-amps. This amplifier chain is used for Tx as well as Rx and is turned around with some left-over switches in the product-detector bus switch package. Sounds like a economical way to go. 6) Detectors for audio-derived Rx AGC and RF-derived Tx ALC. Both of these are optional. TX ALC is valuable improvement in TX performance. Works better than compression. RX AGC is nice even if it is delayed (hearing protector) 7) Should be possible to use the Minima control system as a control foundation with relatively simple changes That alone was what initially attracted me to the design. I've done some preliminary bench testing of the whole RX chain (minus input filters) and the 10db sensitivity is in the sub-1uv range. In Tx mode, it's putting out about 3-5 dbm. There are two easy to make binocular core transformers in the mixer (possibly one can be eliminated) and another in the product detector. Other than the FST3257 bus switches, everything else is done with a few 2N3904's & 2N3906's, a J310 and a pack of quad op-amps. Overall, I don't think the parts count is much/any higher than the Minima. That sensitivity sounds more like what I'd expect. The output power sounds more like that I'd expect. The Minima I suspect suffers from drive to the balanced mod as most of my TX with similar gains do more than -16 by about 10dB. I presume by opamps something like 5532, a low noise part. This basic Xcvr sub-system can be finished off in several ways: 1) The input filters, which will be a separate board, can be individual switched bandpass filters (my preference) or a pair of low-pass filters as in the Minima. Based measurements I'm seeing, I'm pretty sure the LPF approach is workable with the 9mhz IF, although the IF can be built for other frequencies. In either case, I plan to use more FST3257 switches to select input filters. Good plan. Too many permutations for arrangements and the base board can be frozen more easily. 2) AGC/ALC can be left out at the builder's desire. I'm calling this design the "BSS-1", standing for "Bus Switch Special". I started to draw the schematic in Eagle with the intention of making a PCB. Due to my own design tastes, I'm doing the first layout with SMD components. This generally results in smaller size and better performance. ;) I like the name and the SMT approach. Although I fully intend to take this to fruition on my own, I sometimes get sidelined for long periods of time, so a group effort would keep things moving. If there's enough interest, I'll put up the forum I mentioned. Where can I see the schematic and notes? Allison/KB1GMX Joe W3JDR