[lit-ideas] Re: Is torture wrong by definition?
- From: Paul Stone <pas@xxxxxxxx>
- To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2006 10:24:48 -0400
At 10:14 AM 4/6/2006, you wrote:
Using individuals to reflect the group may not be effective. Using the
group to reflect the individual can be effective. The U.S., for example,
can lead by example. Had we not said, oh, goody! now we can [act like
barbarians] by invading another country because a terrorist group gave us
an excuse, there would be a lot more civilization in the world.
I think you just went about it the wrong way. The FIRST thing that went
into my head at about 9:20 on 9/11/01 when that second plane hit was "oh
man, SOMEONE is going to get their ass kicked for this". And rightly so...
BUT... it's too bad that the invasion of IRAQ was NOT the right someone.
It's the WAY that this particular war has been carried out that so many
people object to. IF a the RIGHT people [whoever they are] were held
accountable for this particular act of barbarity, you could string them up
by their heels and draw and quarter them ON TV and 99% of your country
would cheer.
The reason that most people look at the Iraq invasion as stupid is because
it IS/WAS/WILL BE stupid for many years and was the wrong course of
action... but NO action would be wrong too. You can't let people push you
around if you want to be a strong civilized nation. And behind the "oh no
you don't" has to be some military muscle that you WILL use to back up your
admonitions. It's just too bad that monkeyboy couldn't find out who did it
(his people didn't have the heart to say "we did it Georgie") so he
attacked his Daddy's enemy for macho revenge.
Of course, I'll never convince you that one gets to a state of not having
war by not
having war. If the U.S. were fundamentally civilized, we would not have as
our economic backbone a weapons economy.
I agree completely. The US IS NOT a civilized country. It's a very new
experiment that could possibly be a no-go.
It's off the subject but it isn't, because civilization, by any
definition, is anywhere from difficult
to impossible without safety and stability. Paint those pretty pictures
and they will be destroyed or hidden until the fighting stops. This is
not to be confused with pacifism. That's something else.
How do you propose to create real security without any muscle?
Paul
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