[lit-ideas] Re: Is torture wrong by definition?

  • From: Paul Stone <pas@xxxxxxxx>
  • To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2006 13:21:44 -0400


Or prevented by raising better humans (meaning teaching parenting).  I
think if we had humongous numbers of cars that run the way humans do, not
starting, stalling, going out of control, catching fire, whatever, we'd be
in those factories in no time demanding that they improve.

And... we'd JUNK the ones that were shit.

If a factory worker showed up drunk or high, he'd be fired. When it comes to making the
world's most important commodity, humans, it's anything goes. Drunk, high,
rage-filled, needy, depressed, single parent, it's all acceptable. Take
out people like Paul Bernardo and Karla Homolka (I don't really know who
they are) and put them in the vastly reduced prison system that would
follow from raising humans that function better. Unfortunately, that's a
fantasy, and I'm on the verge of giving it up.

I don't think ANYONE is denying you that people have a lot of work to do.

> Who're "we"? The hypocritical puritan american press?

No, you, Lawrence, Eric, me (well, not really me), Joe Average who
complains al Jazeera isn't playing fair by showing people what war really
looks like.

Don't include me in the 'we' because I said ON THIS LIST that what we need is to SHOW all that stuff and that WOULD make those of us who are more civilized even MORE anti-unjust-war. I'll try to find the email if you really want to see it.


Revenge is universal because it's a product of the crocodile brain.
Revenge is a way to work through emotions that can be worked through in far
more productive ways.

Like living a miserable, heartbroken life with no closure for 30 years while your child's murderer sits in jail with free education, free movies, free gym, free food. That's WAY more productive.


> >How to punish, I don't know.  That could be agreed on.
>
> Clearly it cannot because the capital punishment debate constantly rages.
>

Sure it can.  Put them into solitary forever.  It's worse than capital
punishment.  Lots of room for creativity if one could just engage one's
neocortex.

Put them in solitary forever? Isn't that cruel and unusual? Isn't that, as you say a fate worse than death? I don't want to torture these terrible people (for very long anyway), I just want them gone from the Earth.


In the abstract we agree.  In principle, revenge and taking people out are
emotional responses.  But, even agreeing in principle is better than
nothing.

Here is something I wrote yesterday but didn't send.

It just strikes me as rather silly that a lot of people think that an 'near-distant' threat OR a just-past crime is somehow not a valid reason to strike. You have to react IN the moment or not at all. I think that it's actually backwards and that someone who deliberates and carefully thinks about retribution or preemption has done a much greater service than one who reacts and kills someone out of anger and passion in the heat of the moment. If someone kills my wife, should I really club him over the head with the nearest baseball bat immediately or should I restrain him and talk to him for a few hours to see whether he can give me a good reason why I shouldn't do the same to him? If I think about that for a couple of hours and decide "yes, I should" I should be commended that at least I THOUGHT about it and still came up with the answer that "yes, it should be done". Premeditated murderers are almost (unless they are psychopathic serial killers) one-off killers and are not 'dangerous' to society other than the ONE person they want dead. People who react in the moment and fly off the handle with an unmeasured response are the really dangerous ones. Now... what do you say of reason over emotion?

All the evidence points to a reduced standard of living for most Americans
in the not too distant future.  That's why I say civilization is a mirage.
Approachable, but then it disappears.  Around 1970 the population of the
world was something like 3.5 billion.  Now it's something like 6 billion.
The more humans, the more problems.

Again, I direct you to Pianka. What do you say about his 'theory'?

I know someone out there will say it's because there are relatively fewer white people. At least invading Iraq
has disproved any bias toward white people being less capable of evil.


> "I've got an itching swelling brain and I'm OUT OF CONTROL"

Sounds like a quote from a sci fi.  I don't recognize it.  See ya later.
Until then, keep watching the skies ...

It's a 'devo' lyric. They were/are pretty radical new wave musicians. www.clubdevo.com


paul


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