[lit-ideas] Re: Is torture wrong by definition?

  • From: Omar Kusturica <omarkusto@xxxxxxxxx>
  • To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 05:28:45 -0700 (PDT)


--- Eric <eyost1132@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> Omar: I think that torture is wrong by definition, 
> and no argument about
> the moral badness of the tortured can justify it.
> 
> 
> If you support capital punishment, killing in 
> defense of one's country--you certainly seem to do 
> so in the case of Iran--or killing in 
> self-defense, I don't see how you can maintain 
> that torture is absolutely morally wrong.

*"capital punishment" is the catcher here. I don't
support capital punishment, with the possible
exception of cases where the criminal continues to be
dangerous and commit crimes even when incarcerated.
This might be a case when capital punishment is
necessary. As for killing in self-defense or in
defense of the country, it is justified when and if it
is necessary. None of these involves moral judgements
about the character of those executed or killed.

> If you do not believe that all killing is morally 
> wrong, how can you believe all torture is morally 
> wrong? The tortured person lives and usually 
> recovers, but the dead person is...well, dead.
> Torture, as opposed to death, is temporary.
> 
> There are many arguments against torture, but 
> unless you are opposed to killing even in 
> self-defense, I don't see how you can advance the 
> absolute moral argument.

*I made the argument to Larry Kramer once, on the
Phil-Lit of yore, that I think that killing humans is
also wrong by definition, i.e. in itself. It might be
justified only in special circumstances when
committing the wrong would prevent a greater wrong.
Larry in contrast argued that there is nothing right
or wrong with killing in itself, but its moral value
is determined by the context entirely. This proved to
be not a purely semantic distinction. From my
position, the one who wishes to justify such acts has
the burden to prove that they are/were necessary. From
the other position, the killing of, say, foreign
nationals in war would be justified unless proven
otherwise.

O.K.

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