--- Eric <eyost1132@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > Omar: I think that torture is wrong by definition, > and no argument about > the moral badness of the tortured can justify it. > > > If you support capital punishment, killing in > defense of one's country--you certainly seem to do > so in the case of Iran--or killing in > self-defense, I don't see how you can maintain > that torture is absolutely morally wrong. *"capital punishment" is the catcher here. I don't support capital punishment, with the possible exception of cases where the criminal continues to be dangerous and commit crimes even when incarcerated. This might be a case when capital punishment is necessary. As for killing in self-defense or in defense of the country, it is justified when and if it is necessary. None of these involves moral judgements about the character of those executed or killed. > If you do not believe that all killing is morally > wrong, how can you believe all torture is morally > wrong? The tortured person lives and usually > recovers, but the dead person is...well, dead. > Torture, as opposed to death, is temporary. > > There are many arguments against torture, but > unless you are opposed to killing even in > self-defense, I don't see how you can advance the > absolute moral argument. *I made the argument to Larry Kramer once, on the Phil-Lit of yore, that I think that killing humans is also wrong by definition, i.e. in itself. It might be justified only in special circumstances when committing the wrong would prevent a greater wrong. Larry in contrast argued that there is nothing right or wrong with killing in itself, but its moral value is determined by the context entirely. This proved to be not a purely semantic distinction. From my position, the one who wishes to justify such acts has the burden to prove that they are/were necessary. From the other position, the killing of, say, foreign nationals in war would be justified unless proven otherwise. O.K. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------------------------------------------ To change your Lit-Ideas settings (subscribe/unsub, vacation on/off, digest on/off), visit www.andreas.com/faq-lit-ideas.html