**[Trying to avoid being unnecessarily contentious -- but a bit confused]. Are you separating the actions of the Church from those of Christians?? You suggest my resorting to a non-sequitor. For me, there is a direct correlation between Christian behaviour (and the use of the "sword") while operating under the direction (both direct and indirect) of the Church. Didn't some priests actually wear/use swords?? Did the Church actively support the Crusades, Tomás de Torquemada?? TC, /steve Cameron, NJ Phil Enns wrote: > Steve Cameron claims that we disagree because he suggests that instances > where Christians have used the sword "with somewhat significant > consequences to those who weren't Christians" count in considering > whether the Church's change of position on the sword was a good or bad > thing. The matter is not one of disagreement or agreement but one of > relevance. To argue as Steve does is not unlike arguing that the > 'somewhat significant consequences' to those who lived in Dresden has > some bearing on the question of the State and the legitimacy of its > waging war. Steve is not disagreeing with me but engaging in a > non-sequitor. There is the issue of whether the use of the sword has a > place in the life of the Church and then there is the issue of how > Christians have used the sword in particular cases. > > > Sincerely, > > Phil Enns > Toronto, ON > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > To change your Lit-Ideas settings (subscribe/unsub, vacation on/off, > digest on/off), visit www.andreas.com/faq-lit-ideas.html > ------------------------------------------------------------------ To change your Lit-Ideas settings (subscribe/unsub, vacation on/off, digest on/off), visit www.andreas.com/faq-lit-ideas.html