Ok, sorry, I know a lot of acronyms, but what is DRM? Thanks. --le ----- Original Message ----- From: "Will Pearson" <will-pearson@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> To: <guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 5:06 PM Subject: [guispeak] Re: Microsoft ebook reader and the *.lit format. >I think that converting between formats may also be in breech of DRM if the > original format was accessible. > > Will > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "david poehlman" <david.poehlman@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> > To: <guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> > Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 9:49 PM > Subject: [guispeak] Re: Microsoft ebook reader and the *.lit format. > > >> .lit and daisy are like apples and oranges. That's like converting an >> untagged pdf file into accessible html. >> >> Johnnie Apple Seed >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Darrell Shandrow" <nu7i@xxxxxxxxxx> >> To: <guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> >> Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 4:30 PM >> Subject: [guispeak] Re: Microsoft ebook reader and the *.lit format. >> >> >> Hi David, >> >> Yes. DAISY also provides DRM functionality. Perhaps, one solution for >> Microsoft would be a utility to convert from .lit to DAISY? >> >> Darrell Shandrow - Shandrow Communications! >> Technology consultant/instructor, network/systems administrator! >> A+, CCNA, Network+! >> Check out high quality telecommunications services at http://ld.net/?nu7i >> All the best to coalition forces carrying out Operation Iraqi Freedom! >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "david poehlman" <david.poehlman@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> >> To: <guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> >> Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 2:25 PM >> Subject: [guispeak] Re: Microsoft ebook reader and the *.lit format. >> >> >> > ms could go to daisy and ditch .lit. >> > >> > Johnnie Apple Seed >> > >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: "Darrell Shandrow" <nu7i@xxxxxxxxxx> >> > To: <guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> >> > Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 4:01 PM >> > Subject: [guispeak] Re: Microsoft ebook reader and the *.lit format. >> > >> > >> > Hi Laura, David, Will and all, >> > >> > One Microsoft solution I would find acceptable at this point would be > for >> > Microsoft to securely provide a platform on which the .lit format could > be >> > incorporated in to assistive technology products. For instance, FS >> > Reader, >> > Victor Reader, and other software could then support the .lit format in > a >> > way that limits copying. >> > >> > Some secured PDF files can now be loaded in to Adobe Reader in a way > that >> > is >> > accessible. It is not possible to save these files in alternate > formats, >> > and it is impossible to cut/copy and paste their contents. Though I > don't >> > like these restrictions, accessibility is now provided, so I support > their >> > implementation. Accessibility is provided while the content is still >> > protected. The mainstream and assistive tech industries should be > working >> > together to insure accessibility. If legislation like Section 508 has > to >> > be >> > used as the stick, then so be it. >> > >> > >> > Darrell Shandrow - Shandrow Communications! >> > Technology consultant/instructor, network/systems administrator! >> > A+, CCNA, Network+! >> > Check out high quality telecommunications services at > http://ld.net/?nu7i >> > All the best to coalition forces carrying out Operation Iraqi Freedom! >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: "Laura Eaves" <leaves1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> >> > To: <guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> >> > Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 1:35 PM >> > Subject: [guispeak] Re: Microsoft ebook reader and the *.lit format. >> > >> > >> >> Can you set bookmarks? >> >> Can you get a global navigation view of the book, as is possible with >> >> VictorReader software? >> >> Just curious. >> >> Take care. >> >> --le >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> >> From: "david poehlman" <david.poehlman@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> >> >> To: <guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> >> >> Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 3:16 PM >> >> Subject: [guispeak] Re: Microsoft ebook reader and the *.lit format. >> >> >> >> >> >>> on the third point, you are not correct. You can move through the > book >> >>> by >> >>> chapter, page and some other nav chunks. >> >>> >> >>> Johnnie Apple Seed >> >>> >> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >> >>> From: "Darrell Shandrow" <nu7i@xxxxxxxxxx> >> >>> To: <guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> >> >>> Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 3:13 PM >> >>> Subject: [guispeak] Re: Microsoft ebook reader and the *.lit format. >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> Hi Will, >> >>> >> >>> As I understand it, TTS is extremely limited in at least the >> >>> following >> >>> ways: >> >>> 1. >> >>> Some books don't work with it. >> >>> 2. >> >>> Speech quality is sufficiently poor as to bring its practicality in >> >>> to >> >>> question. >> >>> 3. >> >>> It is just a straight read, with no capability to navigate through a >> >>> book. >> >>> >> >>> Am I correct on these three points? >> >>> >> >>> Darrell Shandrow - Shandrow Communications! >> >>> Technology consultant/instructor, network/systems administrator! >> >>> A+, CCNA, Network+! >> >>> Check out high quality telecommunications services at >> >>> http://ld.net/?nu7i >> >>> All the best to coalition forces carrying out Operation Iraqi >> >>> Freedom! >> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >> >>> From: "Will Pearson" <will-pearson@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> >> >>> To: <guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> >> >>> Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 1:06 PM >> >>> Subject: [guispeak] Re: Microsoft ebook reader and the *.lit format. >> >>> >> >>> >> >>>> Darrell; >> >>>> >> >>>> At the end of the day I'm an advocate for accessibility too, the > number >> >>>> of >> >>>> bugs I've reported to Microsoft regarding accessibility of their >> >>>> products, >> >>>> especially Visual Studio, stands testament to that. However, I > believe >> >>>> breaking the law is one step too far, especially where there already >> >>>> exists >> >>>> a legal method of making something accessible, in this case the TTS >> >>>> plug-in >> >>>> for Reader. Whilst it may not be my method of choice, it is legal > and >> >>>> does >> >>>> afford accessibility to the .lit format. >> >>>> >> >>>> Will >> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >> >>>> From: "Darrell Shandrow" <nu7i@xxxxxxxxxx> >> >>>> To: <guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> >> >>>> Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 7:45 PM >> >>>> Subject: [guispeak] Re: Microsoft ebook reader and the *.lit format. >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>>> Hi David, >> >>>>> >> >>>>> OK. Possibly true. When it comes to accessibility, I'm not afraid > to >> >>>> take >> >>>>> liberties with that definition. If I got in to trouble over it, I >> >>>>> would >> >>>> not >> >>>>> hesitate to use my blindness as a media/public relations tool. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Darrell Shandrow - Shandrow Communications! >> >>>>> Technology consultant/instructor, network/systems administrator! >> >>>>> A+, CCNA, Network+! >> >>>>> Check out high quality telecommunications services at >> >>>>> http://ld.net/?nu7i >> >>>>> All the best to coalition forces carrying out Operation Iraqi > Freedom! >> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >> >>>>> From: "david poehlman" <david.poehlman@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> >> >>>>> To: <guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> >> >>>>> Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 12:42 PM >> >>>>> Subject: [guispeak] Re: Microsoft ebook reader and the *.lit >> >>>>> format. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> > You need to read the drm documentation carefully. You cannot do >> >>>> anything >> >>>>> > you want with a copy of a book that you purchase that is in >> >>>>> > electronic >> >>>>> > form >> >>>>> > such as reverse engineer it. The book in this instance is a >> >>>>> > piece >> >>>>> > of >> >>>>> > software and in order to accomplish what you want, you'd have to >> >>>>> > reverse >> >>>>> > engineer it. >> >>>>> > >> >>>>> > Johnnie Apple Seed >> >>>>> > >> >>>>> > ----- Original Message ----- >> >>>>> > From: "Darrell Shandrow" <nu7i@xxxxxxxxxx> >> >>>>> > To: <guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> >> >>>>> > Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 2:07 PM >> >>>>> > Subject: [guispeak] Re: Microsoft ebook reader and the *.lit > format. >> >>>>> > >> >>>>> > >> >>>>> > Hi Will, >> >>>>> > >> >>>>> > Hmmm, well, legally, if I purchase a Microsoft E-book file, I can > do >> >>>>> > whatever it is I need to do in order to gain access, for my own >> >>>>> > personal >> >>>>> > use. What probably is not legal is for me to proceed to > distribute >> >>>>> > that >> >>>>> > file to others. I find it amazing that MS Reader does not permit >> >>>>> > printing. >> >>>>> > Sighted people love to take on-screen info and send it to our >> >>>>> > printers >> >>>> at >> >>>>> > work right away. My employer spends lots of money on consumables >> >>>>> > for >> >>>>> > printers! >> >>>>> > >> >>>>> > Darrell Shandrow - Shandrow Communications! >> >>>>> > Technology consultant/instructor, network/systems administrator! >> >>>>> > A+, CCNA, Network+! >> >>>>> > Check out high quality telecommunications services at >> >>>> http://ld.net/?nu7i >> >>>>> > All the best to coalition forces carrying out Operation Iraqi >> >>>>> > Freedom! >> >>>>> > ----- Original Message ----- >> >>>>> > From: "Will Pearson" <will-pearson@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> >> >>>>> > To: <guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> >> >>>>> > Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 11:51 AM >> >>>>> > Subject: [guispeak] Re: Microsoft ebook reader and the *.lit > format. >> >>>>> > >> >>>>> > >> >>>>> >> Hi; >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>> >> AFAIK, it doesn't allow printing. As an aside, I doubt the >> >>>>> >> legitimacy >> >>>> of >> >>>>> >> using OCR seeing as the TTS plug-in is provided to make Reader >> >>>>> >> accessible. >> >>>>> >> I'm not a legal expert, but would imagine that this would only >> >>>>> >> be >> >>>>> >> permissible in situations where the TTS plug-in offered no > output, >> >>>>> >> such >> >>>>> >> as >> >>>>> >> .lit files composed of scanned images. I think this is slightly >> >>>>> >> different >> >>>>> >> in the UK, where there is no law governing accessibility of > eBooks, >> >>>>> >> and >> >>>>> >> instead it's left up to the old laws governing photocopying of >> >>>>> >> books, >> >>>> in >> >>>>> >> which OCR, or at least scanning, of a limited portion of a book > is >> >>>>> >> allowed. >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>> >> I am looking into the possibility of getting reader to work with > at >> >>>> least >> >>>>> >> one of the popular screen readers with a friend from Microsoft. >> >>>>> >> Hopefully >> >>>>> >> something will come out of this. >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>> >> Will >> >>>>> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> >>>>> >> From: "Darrell Shandrow" <nu7i@xxxxxxxxxx> >> >>>>> >> To: <guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> >> >>>>> >> Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 6:12 PM >> >>>>> >> Subject: [guispeak] Re: Microsoft ebook reader and the *.lit >> >>>>> >> format. >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>> >>> Hi Will and all, >> >>>>> >>> >> >>>>> >>> Does MS Reader permit you to print pages from books? If so, >> >>>>> >>> has >> >>>> anyone >> >>>>> >>> tried this with the virtual printer facilities of K1000 or >> >>>>> >>> OpenBook? >> >>>>> >>> >> >>>>> >>> Darrell Shandrow - Shandrow Communications! >> >>>>> >>> Technology consultant/instructor, network/systems >> >>>>> >>> administrator! >> >>>>> >>> A+, CCNA, Network+! >> >>>>> >>> Check out high quality telecommunications services at >> >>>>> >>> http://ld.net/?nu7i >> >>>>> >>> All the best to coalition forces carrying out Operation Iraqi >> >>>>> >>> Freedom! >> >>>>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >> >>>>> >>> From: "Will Pearson" <will-pearson@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> >> >>>>> >>> To: <guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> >> >>>>> >>> Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 9:03 AM >> >>>>> >>> Subject: [guispeak] Re: Microsoft ebook reader and the *.lit >> >>>>> >>> format. >> >>>>> >>> >> >>>>> >>> >> >>>>> >>> > Hi; >> >>>>> >>> > >> >>>>> >>> > I wouldn't like to say at the moment. The legality of this >> >>>>> >>> > is >> >>>> unsure. >> >>>>> >> In >> >>>>> >>> > the U.S. legislation exists that states it's legal to convert >> >>>>> >>> > ebooks >> >>>>> >>> > to >> >>>>> >>> > another format if they are inaccessible, but the big question >> >>>>> >>> > is, >> >>>>> >>> > by >> >>>>> >>> > providing a TTS plug-in for Reader, is the format considered >> >>>>> >>> > accessible? >> >>>>> >>> > I >> >>>>> >>> > know in the UK, you can use OCR to store only a part of a >> >>>>> >>> > book >> >>>>> >>> > on >> >>>> your >> >>>>> >>> > computer, and this prohibits distribution or alteration of >> >>>>> >>> > the >> >>>>> >>> > content. >> >>>>> >>> > Outside of the UK and US I don't know anything about the >> >>>>> >>> > legality >> >>>>> >>> > of >> >>>>> >> this >> >>>>> >>> > sort of situation, and I wouldn't like to offer advice that > may >> >>>>> >>> > mean >> >>>>> >>> > you >> >>>>> >>> > break the law and are subsequently open to prosicution. >> >>>>> >>> > >> >>>>> >>> > I'm currently discussing the point with some folk from MS UK, >> >>>>> >>> > who >> >>>>> >>> > I >> >>>>> >>> > suspect, >> >>>>> >>> > being the format vendor, are in a position to make a >> >>>>> >>> > judgement >> >>>>> >>> > on >> >>>>> >>> > th >> >>>> e >> >>>>> >>> > legality. I'll post more when I hear something from MS. >> >>>>> >>> > >> >>>>> >>> > Thanks, >> >>>>> >>> > >> >>>>> >>> > Will >> >>>>> >>> > Microsoft MVP (Visual Studio/VC++) >> >>>>> >>> > ----- Original Message ----- >> >>>>> >>> > From: "Nektarios Mallas" <nmallas@xxxxxxxxx> >> >>>>> >>> > To: <guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> >> >>>>> >>> > Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 3:47 PM >> >>>>> >>> > Subject: [guispeak] Re: Microsoft ebook reader and the *.lit >> >>>>> >>> > format. >> >>>>> >>> > >> >>>>> >>> > >> >>>>> >>> >> Thanks for this. >> >>>>> >>> >> Do you know if there is any other way to extract the text > from >> >>>>> >>> >> the >> >>>>> >> *.lit >> >>>>> >>> >> file and read it in other standard programs? >> >>>>> >>> >> >> >>>>> >>> >> Nektarios. >> >>>>> >>> >> >> >>>>> >>> >> >> >>>>> >>> >> -----Original Message----- >> >>>>> >>> >> From: guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] > On >> >>>>> >>> >> Behalf >> >>>>> >>> >> Of Will Pearson >> >>>>> >>> >> Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 3:55 PM >> >>>>> >>> >> To: guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >> >>>>> >>> >> Subject: [guispeak] Re: Microsoft ebook reader and the *.lit >> >>>> format. >> >>>>> >>> >> >> >>>>> >>> >> >> >>>>> >>> >> Hi; >> >>>>> >>> >> >> >>>>> >>> >> Whilst MS Reader isn't supported by any of the screen > readers, >> >>>> there >> >>>>> >>> >> is >> >>>>> >>> >> a plug in. Microsoft have provided a text to speech plug in >> >>>>> >>> >> for >> >>>>> >>> >> Reader >> >>>>> >>> >> that will read aloud the document. It's based on MS SAPI, > and >> >>>>> >>> >> uses >> >>>>> >>> >> the >> >>>>> >>> >> standard SAPI synth that ships with Windows. You can find a >> >>>> download >> >>>>> >>> >> for this from the Reader downloads page. >> >>>>> >>> >> >> >>>>> >>> >> Will >> >>>>> >>> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> >>>>> >>> >> From: "Nektarios Mallas" <nmallas@xxxxxxxxx> >> >>>>> >>> >> To: <guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> >> >>>>> >>> >> Sent: Friday, November 12, 2004 6:39 AM >> >>>>> >>> >> Subject: [guispeak] Microsoft ebook reader and the *.lit >> >>>>> >>> >> format. >> >>>>> >>> >> >> >>>>> >>> >> >> >>>>> >>> >> > Hello list. >> >>>>> >>> >> > Is Microsoft ebook reader accessible by screen readers? Is >> >>>>> >>> >> > there >> >>>>> >>> >> > any >> >>>>> >>> >> > other way to access a *.lit file and extract the text from > it >> >>>>> >>> >> > so >> >>>>> >>> >> > you >> >>>>> >>> >> > can read it with standard applications such as wordpad? >> >>>>> >>> >> > Thanks. >> >>>>> >>> >> > Nektarios. >> >>>>> >>> >> > >> >>>>> >>> >> > >> >>>>> >>> >> > ** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following >> >>>>> >>> >> > link:- >> >>>>> >>> >> > ** > [mailto:ddots-l-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe] >> >>>>> >>> >> > ** If this link doesn't work then send a message to: >> >>>>> >>> >> > ** ddots-l-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >> >>>>> >>> >> > ** and in the Subject line type >> >>>>> >>> >> > ** unsubscribe >> >>>>> >>> >> > ** For other list commands such as vacation mode, click on >> >>>>> >>> >> > the >> >>>>> >>> >> > ** immediately-following link:- >> >>>>> >>> >> > ** [mailto:ddots-l-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=faq] >> >>>>> >>> >> > ** or send a message, to >> >>>>> 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