[guispeak] Re: Microsoft ebook reader and the *.lit format.

  • From: "david poehlman" <david.poehlman@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: <guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2004 16:25:07 -0500

ms could go to daisy and ditch .lit.

Johnnie Apple Seed

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Darrell Shandrow" <nu7i@xxxxxxxxxx>
To: <guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 4:01 PM
Subject: [guispeak] Re: Microsoft ebook reader and the *.lit format.


Hi Laura, David, Will and all,

One Microsoft solution I would find acceptable at this point would be for
Microsoft to securely provide a platform on which the .lit format could be
incorporated in to assistive technology products.  For instance, FS Reader,
Victor Reader, and other software could then support the .lit format in a
way that limits copying.

Some secured PDF files can now be loaded in to Adobe Reader in a way that is
accessible.  It is not possible to save these files in alternate formats,
and it is impossible to cut/copy and paste their contents.  Though I don't
like these restrictions, accessibility is now provided, so I support their
implementation.  Accessibility is provided while the content is still
protected.  The mainstream and assistive tech industries should be working
together to insure accessibility.  If legislation like Section 508 has to be
used as the stick, then so be it.


Darrell Shandrow - Shandrow Communications!
Technology consultant/instructor, network/systems administrator!
A+, CCNA, Network+!
Check out high quality telecommunications services at http://ld.net/?nu7i
All the best to coalition forces carrying out Operation Iraqi Freedom!
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Laura Eaves" <leaves1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 1:35 PM
Subject: [guispeak] Re: Microsoft ebook reader and the *.lit format.


> Can you set bookmarks?
> Can you get a global navigation view of the book, as is possible with
> VictorReader software?
> Just curious.
> Take care.
> --le
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "david poehlman" <david.poehlman@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 3:16 PM
> Subject: [guispeak] Re: Microsoft ebook reader and the *.lit format.
>
>
>> on the third point, you are not correct.  You can move through the book
>> by
>> chapter, page and some other nav chunks.
>>
>> Johnnie Apple Seed
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Darrell Shandrow" <nu7i@xxxxxxxxxx>
>> To: <guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 3:13 PM
>> Subject: [guispeak] Re: Microsoft ebook reader and the *.lit format.
>>
>>
>> Hi Will,
>>
>> As I understand it, TTS is extremely limited in at least the following
>> ways:
>> 1.
>> Some books don't work with it.
>> 2.
>> Speech quality is sufficiently poor as to bring its practicality in to
>> question.
>> 3.
>> It is just a straight read, with no capability to navigate through a
>> book.
>>
>> Am I correct on these three points?
>>
>> Darrell Shandrow - Shandrow Communications!
>> Technology consultant/instructor, network/systems administrator!
>> A+, CCNA, Network+!
>> Check out high quality telecommunications services at http://ld.net/?nu7i
>> All the best to coalition forces carrying out Operation Iraqi Freedom!
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Will Pearson" <will-pearson@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> To: <guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 1:06 PM
>> Subject: [guispeak] Re: Microsoft ebook reader and the *.lit format.
>>
>>
>>> Darrell;
>>>
>>> At the end of the day I'm an advocate for accessibility too, the number
>>> of
>>> bugs I've reported to Microsoft regarding accessibility of their
>>> products,
>>> especially Visual Studio, stands testament to that.  However, I believe
>>> breaking the law is one step too far, especially where there already
>>> exists
>>> a legal method of making something accessible, in this case the TTS
>>> plug-in
>>> for Reader.  Whilst it may not be my method of choice, it is legal and
>>> does
>>> afford accessibility to the .lit format.
>>>
>>> Will
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "Darrell Shandrow" <nu7i@xxxxxxxxxx>
>>> To: <guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>> Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 7:45 PM
>>> Subject: [guispeak] Re: Microsoft ebook reader and the *.lit format.
>>>
>>>
>>>> Hi David,
>>>>
>>>> OK.  Possibly true.  When it comes to accessibility, I'm not afraid to
>>> take
>>>> liberties with that definition.  If I got in to trouble over it, I
>>>> would
>>> not
>>>> hesitate to use my blindness as a media/public relations tool.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Darrell Shandrow - Shandrow Communications!
>>>> Technology consultant/instructor, network/systems administrator!
>>>> A+, CCNA, Network+!
>>>> Check out high quality telecommunications services at
>>>> http://ld.net/?nu7i
>>>> All the best to coalition forces carrying out Operation Iraqi Freedom!
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>> From: "david poehlman" <david.poehlman@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>> To: <guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>> Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 12:42 PM
>>>> Subject: [guispeak] Re: Microsoft ebook reader and the *.lit format.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> > You need to read the drm documentation carefully.  You cannot do
>>> anything
>>>> > you want with a copy of a book that you purchase that is in
>>>> > electronic
>>>> > form
>>>> > such as reverse engineer it.  The book in this instance is a piece of
>>>> > software and in order to accomplish what you want, you'd have to
>>>> > reverse
>>>> > engineer it.
>>>> >
>>>> > Johnnie Apple Seed
>>>> >
>>>> > ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>> > From: "Darrell Shandrow" <nu7i@xxxxxxxxxx>
>>>> > To: <guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>> > Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 2:07 PM
>>>> > Subject: [guispeak] Re: Microsoft ebook reader and the *.lit format.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > Hi Will,
>>>> >
>>>> > Hmmm, well, legally, if I purchase a Microsoft E-book file, I can do
>>>> > whatever it is I need to do in order to gain access, for my own
>>>> > personal
>>>> > use.  What probably is not legal is for me to proceed to distribute
>>>> > that
>>>> > file to others.  I find it amazing that MS Reader does not permit
>>>> > printing.
>>>> > Sighted people love to take on-screen info and send it to our
>>>> > printers
>>> at
>>>> > work right away.  My employer spends lots of money on consumables for
>>>> > printers!
>>>> >
>>>> > Darrell Shandrow - Shandrow Communications!
>>>> > Technology consultant/instructor, network/systems administrator!
>>>> > A+, CCNA, Network+!
>>>> > Check out high quality telecommunications services at
>>> http://ld.net/?nu7i
>>>> > All the best to coalition forces carrying out Operation Iraqi
>>>> > Freedom!
>>>> > ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>> > From: "Will Pearson" <will-pearson@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>> > To: <guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>> > Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 11:51 AM
>>>> > Subject: [guispeak] Re: Microsoft ebook reader and the *.lit format.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >> Hi;
>>>> >>
>>>> >> AFAIK, it doesn't allow printing.  As an aside, I doubt the
>>>> >> legitimacy
>>> of
>>>> >> using OCR seeing as the TTS plug-in is provided to make Reader
>>>> >> accessible.
>>>> >> I'm not a legal expert, but would imagine that this would only be
>>>> >> permissible in situations where the TTS plug-in offered no output,
>>>> >> such
>>>> >> as
>>>> >> .lit files composed of scanned images.  I think this is slightly
>>>> >> different
>>>> >> in the UK, where there is no law governing accessibility of eBooks,
>>>> >> and
>>>> >> instead it's left up to the old laws governing photocopying of
>>>> >> books,
>>> in
>>>> >> which OCR, or at least scanning, of a limited portion of a book is
>>>> >> allowed.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> I am looking into the possibility of getting reader to work with at
>>> least
>>>> >> one of the popular screen readers with a friend from Microsoft.
>>>> >> Hopefully
>>>> >> something will come out of this.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Will
>>>> >> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>> >> From: "Darrell Shandrow" <nu7i@xxxxxxxxxx>
>>>> >> To: <guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>> >> Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 6:12 PM
>>>> >> Subject: [guispeak] Re: Microsoft ebook reader and the *.lit format.
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>> Hi Will and all,
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Does MS Reader permit you to print pages from books?  If so, has
>>> anyone
>>>> >>> tried this with the virtual printer facilities of K1000 or
>>>> >>> OpenBook?
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Darrell Shandrow - Shandrow Communications!
>>>> >>> Technology consultant/instructor, network/systems administrator!
>>>> >>> A+, CCNA, Network+!
>>>> >>> Check out high quality telecommunications services at
>>>> >>> http://ld.net/?nu7i
>>>> >>> All the best to coalition forces carrying out Operation Iraqi
>>>> >>> Freedom!
>>>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>> >>> From: "Will Pearson" <will-pearson@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>> >>> To: <guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>> >>> Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 9:03 AM
>>>> >>> Subject: [guispeak] Re: Microsoft ebook reader and the *.lit
>>>> >>> format.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> > Hi;
>>>> >>> >
>>>> >>> > I wouldn't like to say at the moment.  The legality of this is
>>> unsure.
>>>> >> In
>>>> >>> > the U.S. legislation exists that states it's legal to convert
>>>> >>> > ebooks
>>>> >>> > to
>>>> >>> > another format if they are inaccessible, but the big question is,
>>>> >>> > by
>>>> >>> > providing a TTS plug-in for Reader, is the format considered
>>>> >>> > accessible?
>>>> >>> > I
>>>> >>> > know in the UK, you can use OCR to store only a part of a book on
>>> your
>>>> >>> > computer, and this prohibits distribution or alteration of the
>>>> >>> > content.
>>>> >>> > Outside of the UK and US I don't know anything about the legality
>>>> >>> > of
>>>> >> this
>>>> >>> > sort of situation, and I wouldn't like to offer advice that may
>>>> >>> > mean
>>>> >>> > you
>>>> >>> > break the law and are subsequently open to prosicution.
>>>> >>> >
>>>> >>> > I'm currently discussing the point with some folk from MS UK, who
>>>> >>> > I
>>>> >>> > suspect,
>>>> >>> > being the format vendor, are in a position to make a judgement on
>>>> >>> > th
>>> e
>>>> >>> > legality.  I'll post more when I hear something from MS.
>>>> >>> >
>>>> >>> > Thanks,
>>>> >>> >
>>>> >>> > Will
>>>> >>> > Microsoft MVP (Visual Studio/VC++)
>>>> >>> > ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>> >>> > From: "Nektarios Mallas" <nmallas@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>> >>> > To: <guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>> >>> > Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 3:47 PM
>>>> >>> > Subject: [guispeak] Re: Microsoft ebook reader and the *.lit
>>>> >>> > format.
>>>> >>> >
>>>> >>> >
>>>> >>> >> Thanks for this.
>>>> >>> >> Do you know if there is any other way to extract the text from
>>>> >>> >> the
>>>> >> *.lit
>>>> >>> >> file and read it in other standard programs?
>>>> >>> >>
>>>> >>> >> Nektarios.
>>>> >>> >>
>>>> >>> >>
>>>> >>> >> -----Original Message-----
>>>> >>> >> From: guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
>>>> >>> >> Behalf
>>>> >>> >> Of Will Pearson
>>>> >>> >> Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 3:55 PM
>>>> >>> >> To: guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> >>> >> Subject: [guispeak] Re: Microsoft ebook reader and the *.lit
>>> format.
>>>> >>> >>
>>>> >>> >>
>>>> >>> >> Hi;
>>>> >>> >>
>>>> >>> >> Whilst MS Reader isn't supported by any of the screen readers,
>>> there
>>>> >>> >> is
>>>> >>> >> a plug in.  Microsoft have provided a text to speech plug in for
>>>> >>> >> Reader
>>>> >>> >> that will read aloud the document.  It's based on MS SAPI, and
>>>> >>> >> uses
>>>> >>> >> the
>>>> >>> >> standard SAPI synth that ships with Windows.  You can find a
>>> download
>>>> >>> >> for this from the Reader downloads page.
>>>> >>> >>
>>>> >>> >> Will
>>>> >>> >> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>> >>> >> From: "Nektarios Mallas" <nmallas@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>> >>> >> To: <guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>> >>> >> Sent: Friday, November 12, 2004 6:39 AM
>>>> >>> >> Subject: [guispeak] Microsoft ebook reader and the *.lit format.
>>>> >>> >>
>>>> >>> >>
>>>> >>> >> > Hello list.
>>>> >>> >> > Is Microsoft ebook reader accessible by screen readers? Is
>>>> >>> >> > there
>>>> >>> >> > any
>>>> >>> >> > other way to access a *.lit file and extract the text from it
>>>> >>> >> > so
>>>> >>> >> > you
>>>> >>> >> > can read it with standard applications such as wordpad?
>>>> >>> >> > Thanks.
>>>> >>> >> > Nektarios.
>>>> >>> >> >
>>>> >>> >> >
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