[guispeak] Re: Microsoft ebook reader and the *.lit format.

  • From: "Will Pearson" <will-pearson@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: <guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2004 20:44:52 -0000

Darrell;

I'm not sure as to your first point, but as to the second and third, we need
to take a close look at what accessibility means.  In the world of Human
Computer Interaction, as yes, accessibility applies equally to everyone and
not just to someone who has a disability, there's several definitions used:

* Accessibility
- Just focusing on whether someone can use something, and takes into account
no other attributes of the interaction

* Usability
- Prescribed by an ISO standard on usability, and looks at factors of an
interaction such as efficiency, accuracy, ease of use and even enjoyability
and satisfaction.  Basically it covers how well someone can perform an
interaction.

I believe that legally these are the two definitions that would be used.
Section 508 guidelines deal purely with whether someone can use something,
not how well they can use it, and over here in the UK, the Disability Rights
Commission have issued guidance that accessibility of the web will be based
on priority A, and maybe priority AA, of the W3C's WCAG, which mainly deals
with whether someone can use something, and again, not how well they can use
it.  So, the spirit of the legislation would suggest to me, that legally
accessibility is purely concerned with whether someone can use something,
not how well they can use it.  Thus points 2 and 3 that you raise may prove
to be a very weak case if legal proceedings were to be brought against you.

Will
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Darrell Shandrow" <nu7i@xxxxxxxxxx>
To: <guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 8:13 PM
Subject: [guispeak] Re: Microsoft ebook reader and the *.lit format.


> Hi Will,
>
> As I understand it, TTS is extremely limited in at least the following
ways:
> 1.
> Some books don't work with it.
> 2.
> Speech quality is sufficiently poor as to bring its practicality in to
> question.
> 3.
> It is just a straight read, with no capability to navigate through a book.
>
> Am I correct on these three points?
>
> Darrell Shandrow - Shandrow Communications!
> Technology consultant/instructor, network/systems administrator!
> A+, CCNA, Network+!
> Check out high quality telecommunications services at http://ld.net/?nu7i
> All the best to coalition forces carrying out Operation Iraqi Freedom!
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Will Pearson" <will-pearson@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 1:06 PM
> Subject: [guispeak] Re: Microsoft ebook reader and the *.lit format.
>
>
> > Darrell;
> >
> > At the end of the day I'm an advocate for accessibility too, the number
of
> > bugs I've reported to Microsoft regarding accessibility of their
products,
> > especially Visual Studio, stands testament to that.  However, I believe
> > breaking the law is one step too far, especially where there already
> > exists
> > a legal method of making something accessible, in this case the TTS
> > plug-in
> > for Reader.  Whilst it may not be my method of choice, it is legal and
> > does
> > afford accessibility to the .lit format.
> >
> > Will
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: "Darrell Shandrow" <nu7i@xxxxxxxxxx>
> > To: <guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 7:45 PM
> > Subject: [guispeak] Re: Microsoft ebook reader and the *.lit format.
> >
> >
> >> Hi David,
> >>
> >> OK.  Possibly true.  When it comes to accessibility, I'm not afraid to
> > take
> >> liberties with that definition.  If I got in to trouble over it, I
would
> > not
> >> hesitate to use my blindness as a media/public relations tool.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Darrell Shandrow - Shandrow Communications!
> >> Technology consultant/instructor, network/systems administrator!
> >> A+, CCNA, Network+!
> >> Check out high quality telecommunications services at
http://ld.net/?nu7i
> >> All the best to coalition forces carrying out Operation Iraqi Freedom!
> >> ----- Original Message ----- 
> >> From: "david poehlman" <david.poehlman@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> To: <guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 12:42 PM
> >> Subject: [guispeak] Re: Microsoft ebook reader and the *.lit format.
> >>
> >>
> >> > You need to read the drm documentation carefully.  You cannot do
> > anything
> >> > you want with a copy of a book that you purchase that is in
electronic
> >> > form
> >> > such as reverse engineer it.  The book in this instance is a piece of
> >> > software and in order to accomplish what you want, you'd have to
> >> > reverse
> >> > engineer it.
> >> >
> >> > Johnnie Apple Seed
> >> >
> >> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> >> > From: "Darrell Shandrow" <nu7i@xxxxxxxxxx>
> >> > To: <guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> > Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 2:07 PM
> >> > Subject: [guispeak] Re: Microsoft ebook reader and the *.lit format.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Hi Will,
> >> >
> >> > Hmmm, well, legally, if I purchase a Microsoft E-book file, I can do
> >> > whatever it is I need to do in order to gain access, for my own
> >> > personal
> >> > use.  What probably is not legal is for me to proceed to distribute
> >> > that
> >> > file to others.  I find it amazing that MS Reader does not permit
> >> > printing.
> >> > Sighted people love to take on-screen info and send it to our
printers
> > at
> >> > work right away.  My employer spends lots of money on consumables for
> >> > printers!
> >> >
> >> > Darrell Shandrow - Shandrow Communications!
> >> > Technology consultant/instructor, network/systems administrator!
> >> > A+, CCNA, Network+!
> >> > Check out high quality telecommunications services at
> > http://ld.net/?nu7i
> >> > All the best to coalition forces carrying out Operation Iraqi
Freedom!
> >> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> >> > From: "Will Pearson" <will-pearson@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> > To: <guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> > Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 11:51 AM
> >> > Subject: [guispeak] Re: Microsoft ebook reader and the *.lit format.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >> Hi;
> >> >>
> >> >> AFAIK, it doesn't allow printing.  As an aside, I doubt the
legitimacy
> > of
> >> >> using OCR seeing as the TTS plug-in is provided to make Reader
> >> >> accessible.
> >> >> I'm not a legal expert, but would imagine that this would only be
> >> >> permissible in situations where the TTS plug-in offered no output,
> >> >> such
> >> >> as
> >> >> .lit files composed of scanned images.  I think this is slightly
> >> >> different
> >> >> in the UK, where there is no law governing accessibility of eBooks,
> >> >> and
> >> >> instead it's left up to the old laws governing photocopying of
books,
> > in
> >> >> which OCR, or at least scanning, of a limited portion of a book is
> >> >> allowed.
> >> >>
> >> >> I am looking into the possibility of getting reader to work with at
> > least
> >> >> one of the popular screen readers with a friend from Microsoft.
> >> >> Hopefully
> >> >> something will come out of this.
> >> >>
> >> >> Will
> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- 
> >> >> From: "Darrell Shandrow" <nu7i@xxxxxxxxxx>
> >> >> To: <guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> >> Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 6:12 PM
> >> >> Subject: [guispeak] Re: Microsoft ebook reader and the *.lit format.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>> Hi Will and all,
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Does MS Reader permit you to print pages from books?  If so, has
> > anyone
> >> >>> tried this with the virtual printer facilities of K1000 or
OpenBook?
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Darrell Shandrow - Shandrow Communications!
> >> >>> Technology consultant/instructor, network/systems administrator!
> >> >>> A+, CCNA, Network+!
> >> >>> Check out high quality telecommunications services at
> >> >>> http://ld.net/?nu7i
> >> >>> All the best to coalition forces carrying out Operation Iraqi
> >> >>> Freedom!
> >> >>> ----- Original Message ----- 
> >> >>> From: "Will Pearson" <will-pearson@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> >>> To: <guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> >>> Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 9:03 AM
> >> >>> Subject: [guispeak] Re: Microsoft ebook reader and the *.lit
format.
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> > Hi;
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> > I wouldn't like to say at the moment.  The legality of this is
> > unsure.
> >> >> In
> >> >>> > the U.S. legislation exists that states it's legal to convert
> >> >>> > ebooks
> >> >>> > to
> >> >>> > another format if they are inaccessible, but the big question is,
> >> >>> > by
> >> >>> > providing a TTS plug-in for Reader, is the format considered
> >> >>> > accessible?
> >> >>> > I
> >> >>> > know in the UK, you can use OCR to store only a part of a book on
> > your
> >> >>> > computer, and this prohibits distribution or alteration of the
> >> >>> > content.
> >> >>> > Outside of the UK and US I don't know anything about the legality
> >> >>> > of
> >> >> this
> >> >>> > sort of situation, and I wouldn't like to offer advice that may
> >> >>> > mean
> >> >>> > you
> >> >>> > break the law and are subsequently open to prosicution.
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> > I'm currently discussing the point with some folk from MS UK, who
I
> >> >>> > suspect,
> >> >>> > being the format vendor, are in a position to make a judgement on
> >> >>> > th
> > e
> >> >>> > legality.  I'll post more when I hear something from MS.
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> > Thanks,
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> > Will
> >> >>> > Microsoft MVP (Visual Studio/VC++)
> >> >>> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> >> >>> > From: "Nektarios Mallas" <nmallas@xxxxxxxxx>
> >> >>> > To: <guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> >>> > Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 3:47 PM
> >> >>> > Subject: [guispeak] Re: Microsoft ebook reader and the *.lit
> >> >>> > format.
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> >> Thanks for this.
> >> >>> >> Do you know if there is any other way to extract the text from
the
> >> >> *.lit
> >> >>> >> file and read it in other standard programs?
> >> >>> >>
> >> >>> >> Nektarios.
> >> >>> >>
> >> >>> >>
> >> >>> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> >>> >> From: guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
> >> >>> >> Behalf
> >> >>> >> Of Will Pearson
> >> >>> >> Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 3:55 PM
> >> >>> >> To: guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> >>> >> Subject: [guispeak] Re: Microsoft ebook reader and the *.lit
> > format.
> >> >>> >>
> >> >>> >>
> >> >>> >> Hi;
> >> >>> >>
> >> >>> >> Whilst MS Reader isn't supported by any of the screen readers,
> > there
> >> >>> >> is
> >> >>> >> a plug in.  Microsoft have provided a text to speech plug in for
> >> >>> >> Reader
> >> >>> >> that will read aloud the document.  It's based on MS SAPI, and
> >> >>> >> uses
> >> >>> >> the
> >> >>> >> standard SAPI synth that ships with Windows.  You can find a
> > download
> >> >>> >> for this from the Reader downloads page.
> >> >>> >>
> >> >>> >> Will
> >> >>> >> ----- Original Message ----- 
> >> >>> >> From: "Nektarios Mallas" <nmallas@xxxxxxxxx>
> >> >>> >> To: <guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> >>> >> Sent: Friday, November 12, 2004 6:39 AM
> >> >>> >> Subject: [guispeak] Microsoft ebook reader and the *.lit format.
> >> >>> >>
> >> >>> >>
> >> >>> >> > Hello list.
> >> >>> >> > Is Microsoft ebook reader accessible by screen readers? Is
there
> >> >>> >> > any
> >> >>> >> > other way to access a *.lit file and extract the text from it
so
> >> >>> >> > you
> >> >>> >> > can read it with standard applications such as wordpad?
Thanks.
> >> >>> >> > Nektarios.
> >> >>> >> >
> >> >>> >> >
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