Nick, Yes, I'll agree with that. I have three reasons for claiming a "small" universe (as you rightly say, it is still enormous by our everyday standards): 1. The rain during the Flood came from above the firmament (i.e., universe) and took a finite time to hit the surface of the World. This enables me to estimate the size (i.e., distance that it travelled). 2. A massive universe doesn't seem to have much point to it (I accept that you may say this is subjective). 3. God resides in the third heaven and the thought that this is not too far away greatly appeals to me. I hope that I have answered your points. In Christ, Neville. "Niemann, Nicholas K." <NNiemann@xxxxxxxx> wrote: Neville, Why does it matter whether the universe is "much much smaller". If God can whip the stars around a nonmoving earth when they are X billion miles away, he is equally powerful to be able to whip the stars around the earth when they are XXXX billion miles away. You don't need to prove fact A (smaller universe) to prove fact B (nonmoving earth). It's an easy effort for an almighty God either way. If the geocentric position doesn't really need the smaller universe, then why make it a condition, as I "think" you may be doing. Tie a rock to the end of a 10 foot rope and whip it around you. Then tie it to a 10 mile rope. If you have unlimited strength, you can move both around fast enough so an entire revolution occurs in the same time. (I'm not a scientist, so I don't know if you see something else that contradicts this). No matter how small you get the universe, it will still be a large distance for the stars to go in 24 hours. My point is God can do it despite the length. Regards, Nick. -----Original Message----- From: Dr. Neville Jones [mailto:ntj005@xxxxxxxxxxx] Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2005 6:21 PM To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [geocentrism] Re: Geocentrism how I see it. Dan, Forget the "science" for a moment. Let's reason from Scripture. Joshua asked God that he might be allowed to command the Sun and Moon to stand still. God granted this, and the Sun and Moon stood still for almost a whole day. If the World rotates, then there is no way to cater for this instruction, because stopping the World would not stop BOTH the Sun and the Moon (they go around at different rates). To make them APPEAR to stop, God would actually have to have INCREASED their speeds. And His command to them to stop would have thus been ignored. My guess is that you are hesitant about the stars' rotation because of the enormous size we are "taught" for the universe. But what if the universe were much, much smaller?? Keep thinking on this. Neville. Dan wrote: Neville, From my own personal observations from the movements of the sun and moon and stars I have come to the conclusion that yes the earth is at the centre and it cannot be moved. That for me is a fact confirmed to me by the word of God. However what I can not conclude on is do the stars move around a fixed earth or does the earth rotate clockwise and the stars are fixed and the sun moon and planets rotate at different speeds according to their distance from the earth? I feel that the earth rotates clockwise which gives us the elusion that the stars move around the earth.I may be wrong. Dan. --------------------------------- ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun! -- No attachments (even text) are allowed -- -- Type: text/plain -- File: InterScan_Disclaimer.txt --------------------------------- ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun!