[access-uk] Re: My experiences moving over to Window Eyes
- From: "Barry Toner" <barry@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Wed, 12 May 2010 14:26:36 +0100
Hi Adrian,
Now we're getting to the crux. Grins.
I'm currently unemployed so for me this was an ideal time to switch if ever
there was one.
I did make some switches for apps because I didn't' like the way Window Eyes
worked with them. I believe though it's offered me not only a broader scope
on what everyday apps I'm using but has gave me more features and a better
computing experience.
WE works with Internet Explorer and I've heard from loads of folks who
haven't a problem with it. I just found IE8 was loading pages into WE's
buffer slower than with JAWS. So I moved to Firefox. I love Firefox now
and only use IE when I really need to for some Microsoft sites. I'd played
about with FF before but not really go into it.
One annoying thing with Firefox and WE though is the page keeps refreshing
when I use google and Ebay as well as Youtube's search edit box. A
workaround though is just to turn the Browse Mode autoload off for those
pages. It's a bit like before JAWS impalmented it's auto forms mode so not
a great hardship.
Another app that on my Windows 7 machine wouldn't read an import dialog,
which is really just a file open dialog was the podcast client Juice. Again
I believe that's just on my machine. I was frustrated and thought I'd give
Itunes a bash. I am not using Itunes at the moment to manage my own media,
mp3s etc but I've turned into an Itunes Junky when it comes to it's store
and Podcasting. It's beautiful to be able to browse like you would with a
web browser from within it for thousands of Podcasts and subscribe right
from within the app. Also to be able to preview podcasts.
I've come up a bit short now because... yeah these where the only two apps I
changed and while there was annoyance of, "Why won't that work for me, it
worked when I used JAWS", in the bigger picture I've gotten more back for
the changes I needed to make.
WE's far handier to have on my pen drive for example than JAWS. I don't'
need an additional licence USB stick. I can run WE, Firefox, Thunderbird
etc all from one U3 USB stick without any lag.
Barry.
-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
Adrian Higginbotham
Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2010 2:18 PM
To: 'access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx'
Subject: [access-uk] Re: My experiences moving over to Window Eyes
Hi Barry - very interesting, thanks for posting. Can you tellus a bit more
about that week in which you went cold turkey e.g. did you make the change
at home and work or just home?
Which applications were you able to get up and running with pretty quickly,
which took longer, and were there any that you had to ditch and ind
alternatives for?
I often find when going through a technology enforced change that a lot of
things get better but a few things get harder or impossible, so what are the
few but annoying things you can't do as easily now as you could before you
made the switch?
Adrian Higginbotham
Manager, leading edge research.
DD: 02476797333
E: Adrian.Higginbotham@xxxxxxxxxxxx
W: www.Becta.org.uk
A: Becta, Millburnhill Road, Science park, Coventry CV4 7JJ.
-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
Barry Toner
Sent: 11 May 2010 12:17
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] My experiences moving over to Window Eyes
Hi all,
I started writing this late last night and ran out of steam. I posted it to
the GWMICRO-INFO list under the thread of I've Something To Say.
It's not the best piece I've ever written but I wanted to share my
experiences with you all as a long-term JAWS user.
Messege Starts
" I can also chime in on this thread with a personal tale.
I have been using Window Eyes on and off for around 6 years.
I lost my sight in an accident when I was18 years old. I frustrated myself
with Hal for about 2 years and then I found JAWS. Whilst it did not replace
being able to use Windows with sight it was a breath of fresh air compared
to Hal 4.2. Especially when it came to surfing the Internet. This would
have been JAWS 3.7 I started with.
I've watched the decline of JAWS over the years in terms of problems not
being fixed, new ones being introduced and generally allot of half-baked
product development going through out onto the market. Not to mention as I
see them very fluffy plug ins and the nightmare that has always existed JAWS
licensing.
Despite these failings I was not prepared to move outside of my comfort
zone. Even at the time when my peers where doing so and I would have most
benefited from their support and vice versa.
In saying this I completed two Computer Science Degrees using JAWS. Though
having learnt what I have in the past weeks things just as a fact would have
been allot easier with Window Eyes. What's that old saying though? About
heinsight being twenty twenty.
Just over three weeks back I decided I wanted to learn to use Window Eyes.
I didn't' say too much to friends who would only think that we'd been there
before. When they tried to get me to see the light, so to speak.
I sat down and thought how best to approach Window Eyes this time.
Something that would be different from previous half-hearted attempts to
give the product a fair go.
So, I decided I would use Window Eyes and no other screen reader for 1 full
week. No matter what task I needed to do on the computer. I made a
commitment despite my tasks priority to use Window Eyes. I was determined
to learn how to do it with Window Eyes.
This was allot harder than it may sound. Especially as I'm really not that
much of a committed person when it comes to Window Eyes. Or rather I
wasn't.
So I unloaded JAWS and installed Win Eyes v7.11 onto my Windows 7 32Bit
Desktop.
I really needed to make this a genuine attempt. I decided to make it a
social experiment instead of a hardcore, I'm going to do this and if I go
back to JAWS I've failed. So I announced on my twitter and Face Book feeds
what I was going to do. I then sent updates several times a day including
@gwmicro in the thread of the good, bad and ugly.
Let me tell you the language I through at the computer for the first three
days was disgraceful! But when I learned how to use the Mouse Keys, started
to read sections of the excellently layed out manual, joined this list and
discovered Script Central I started to get a bit excited.
One of my main frustrations was the amount of times v7.11 would do odd
things. By this I mean it would clip words in Outlook 2K7. Scripts would
crash, Window Eyes would crash if set to load upon log-in. I discovered
that Window Eyes wasn't as infallible as the fan boys and girls made it out
to be. Oh yes and I got a healthy taster that no doubt End_users I've
supported as a Systems Engingeer have gotten from me a time or too. That
of, "uh that's weird" "It doesnt' do it on my machine like that". This
maybe true but it's not a helpful response!
So for me it's not been an experience of "The most stable Screen Reader".
JAWS for me still holds that trophy on my system. Well, it would if it was
still installed.
It's been over three weeks and I've not went back despite user error
problems and bugs with Window Eyes.
Now, it is fair to say that a new user of a product will often make mistakes
through just not knowing. I'm not exceempt from this. However, there's
allot going on in a person learning a new thing. Whither that is a computer
program, folding lawndry etc.
So why might you ask despite the problems I had and in some cases like the
clipping words didn't' I just do the easy thing and switch back? Simple,
I'd decided I'd rather put up with some problems that can either be worked
round or ignored until they are either fixed or I'm told of something I'm
not doing to get Window Eyes to do what I want. In doing so I get the
wonderful functionality and fresh approach Window Eyes has given to my
computing. This compared to the stale product that did, serve me well for a
time but has frankly become a bit of a farse in comparison. I.E. JAWS.
I used to believe that JAWS and Window Eyes both had their place. I
believed this kept me nutral and made me unlike The Zellots, (as I saw them
at the time), who sat in each camp throwing muck back and forth.
I find myself looking on at other people in my life who are using JAWS and
struggling and want to cry out to them. Look, you dont' need to carry on
with those bad habits you learned with JAWS. Tabbing all over the screen
and not using keystrokes in say,and Installer Wizard of alt n for Next.
It's incredible the amount of JAWS users who are not aware of how to use the
JAWS Cursor. that's a real bug bear of mine now having used Window Eyes
mouse Keys. the fact you need to completely switch to a different mode then
back to the PC Cursor mode. no wonder people get confused!
I could detail my own feelings on a lengthy list of JAWS short comings not
to mention the iresponsable way Freedom Scientific treat customers. I'd
only be preaching to the crowd and end up falling into the camp of "My ones
bigger than yours".
I'd like to think i can lead by example to people I know that use JAWS and I
see struggling with the mindset it forces on people of the old and
comfortable. By letting them see my completley fresh approach and no longer
fear of trying something new just for fun. Sadly though I'm a geek and I
believe most of my friends will discount what I'm doing as down to that.
rather than, "I could be having that much fun and productivity as well".
Trailing off a bit as I need to get out before the rain starts here!"
Barry Toner
BCS Belfast Branch
YPG Representative & Disability Group
http://www.bcs.org/server.php?show=nav.10444
Contact me @
Professional: barry.toner@xxxxxxxxxx
Personal Email: barry@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
MSN/Live: djpaddy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
AIM/FB: barry@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
TWITTER: dj_paddy
Skype: djpaddy
Mobile: (UK) +44 (0) 7921 611 253
__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature
database 5104 (20100511) __________
The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.
http://www.eset.com
** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:-
** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe]
** If this link doesn't work then send a message to:
** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
** and in the Subject line type
** unsubscribe
** For other list commands such as vacation mode, click on the
** immediately-following link:-
** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=faq]
** or send a message, to
** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the Subject:- faq
This email and any information transmitted within it may be confidential and
may also be subject to legal privilege. It is intended only for the
recipient(s) named above or the person responsible for delivering the email
to the intended recipient. If you are not named above as a recipient, you
must not read, copy, disclose, forward or otherwise use the information
contained in this email. If you have received this e-mail in error, please
notify the sender (whose contact details are above) immediately by reply
e-mail and delete the message and any information transmitted with it
without retaining any copies. Please note that electronic mail may be
monitored in accordance with the Telecommunications (Lawful Business
Practices)(Interception of Communications) Regulations 2000.
** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:-
** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe]
** If this link doesn't work then send a message to:
** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
** and in the Subject line type
** unsubscribe
** For other list commands such as vacation mode, click on the
** immediately-following link:-
** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=faq]
** or send a message, to
** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the Subject:- faq
__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature
database 5105 (20100511) __________
The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.
http://www.eset.com
__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature
database 5105 (20100511) __________
The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.
http://www.eset.com
__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature
database 5107 (20100512) __________
The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.
http://www.eset.com
__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature
database 5108 (20100512) __________
The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.
http://www.eset.com
** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:-
** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe]
** If this link doesn't work then send a message to:
** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
** and in the Subject line type
** unsubscribe
** For other list commands such as vacation mode, click on the
** immediately-following link:-
** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=faq]
** or send a message, to
** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the Subject:- faq
Other related posts:
