One of the problems in determining what sire to breed to is in the information available. Some keep a tight lid on the problems related to their dog. Probably a worse situation is the rumor mill from which so much bad information comes. They say that (whoever 'they' are) there are no facts so ardently believed as misinformation often repeated. This is so true in our breed. I've heard all the rumors about many dogs we used in the past, and of some of the lines that have been used the most. If you breed to any dog enough times, you will get just about everything. We bred to my all-time favorite dog, *&*&*& (name withheld - I'll let the owner tell you what the rumors and the truth was), years ago only to find out he produced everything, according to rumors. Yet, I'm willing to bet that the relative health of his progeny was among the best. We certainly had no problems nor have I personally seen any. Were there any? No doubt. Were they as numerous as rumored? Not at all. There are certain 'transitional' dogs that leave a mark on the breed. They may be rejected by some for the problems they leave behind, but they also leave a lasting mark on the breed for the good things they leave behind also. Such was Axel, Troll, Bear, Andretti, Houston, Gotti, The Boss, and others who have shaped our breed. But is it worth it, when they also produce problems? I'll vote yes. We do not know what problems are coming until they are here, and that is true from any stud dog. Then, we have to make corrections and keep moving toward correcting those problems. I think we've done an admirable job of recognizing the issues and dealing with them. So when I see an advertisement wanting XYZ free lines, I often wonder what is coming next? Dave ---------------------------------------------------------- Well, I wonder what would have happened if we had thrown out Axel and Troll? What would our breed be like? And given the lack of genetic knowledge we had back then, who would we have bred to and what problems would we have discovered through them? I am not good at taking chances with my breeding's, that is probably why I am so famous for my lines (not)! So I cannot defend chance taking and my own conservative actions at the same time, but... Without Axel and Troll, what would we have and what would our breed be? It certainly would be entirely different. Dave ------------------------------------------- What should be of concern is all the crosses back to Axel von der Deininghauser Heide known to have digestive problems coming up through Troll and Bad Melle that both Houston and Gotti had. Theresa On Wed, 9/11/13, nhansburgh@xxxxxxxxxx <nhansburgh@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote: Subject: [ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: question about showing Date: Wednesday, September 11, 2013, 10:10 PM i believe that houston died young of bloat and gotti only made it to eight. those things bother me more then the hips and elbows do ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2012. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. Each Author is responsible for the content of his/her post. This group and its administrators are not responsible for the comments or opinions expressed in any post. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - http://showgsd.org SUBSCRIPTION:http://showgsd.org/mail.html NATIONAL BLOG - http://gsdnational.blogspot.com/ ============================================================================ ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2012. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. Each Author is responsible for the content of his/her post. This group and its administrators are not responsible for the comments or opinions expressed in any post. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - http://showgsd.org SUBSCRIPTION:http://showgsd.org/mail.html NATIONAL BLOG - http://gsdnational.blogspot.com/ ============================================================================