In a message dated 12/2/04 12:47:30 PM, ELG440@xxxxxxx writes: << I also consider a breed problem anything that creates a fault in the breed, but that is only as to the venue of showing that you are trying to enter. In other words, if you want to show in agility, a breed problem would be a dog less agile than required, If you want to show in conformation it would be anything that does not meet the standard, if you want to show in Schutzhund, it might be a weak bite, so it is a dynamic answer. >> I put the line in bold so as to be clear about what I wish to say. I disagree with the statement "only as to the venue we are trying to enter". I started in obedience, like many others. At that time, obedience & conformation people hated eachother and never the twain did meet! 1996 was my first National, and I was a ring steward in obedience. I had my breed dog entered for his TC and HIC, but felt too novice to enter him in breed at the National. In 96, it was great seeing the Champions who were in the obedience ring. Our standard is far more exacting than most. It is my belief that if we are truly breeding to the standard, you can put that dog in any venue and the dog will be successful IF THEY ARE CORRECT. A dog that does not cover ground efficiently is not going to make it in the conformation ring OR the herding ring. A shy dog may be conformationally correct, but if they spook in the ring, they would also spook in a TC or Schutzhund Trial. That is a fault of temperament. We have the greatest breed in the entire world and there is much talk about breeding for the total dog. While we may not have the time or money to obtain titles in several arenas with the same dog, the dog should be CAPABLE of doing it. Fortunately we're no longer throwing stones or spitting on those in the "other" rings, we are embracing our breeds magnificence and showing that they can do it all. So now I've come back to my original point - a dog that meets the standard should be able to do it ALL. Kelly Busse Wolfheart German Shepherds ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2004. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - http://www.showgsd.org ============================================================================