I think the idea behind floss is that your using something that people work on because they want to. Sure, I'd like to get paid for programming, but at the end of the day, right now I just do it because it's free and fun. I don't have to pay for a lot of the stuff I use because I go the open source route, and I can experiment and add to it. A lot of the software that is closed source is ok too sometimes, but that's not floss. I've found that I trust something a lot more that I can poke at the code of, rather than some programmer who might get his kicks from adding little problems to his code to solve some anger management issue or another.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Alex Midence" <alex.midence@xxxxxxxxx>
To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2010 12:55 PM Subject: Re: Is Visual C++ Accessible - Was: C++ and I are getting divorced.
What is floss? I personally don't have a problem with someone charging for software. Microsoft provides a product that does a valuable thing. they have to pay their people from somewhare and sales revenue is how they do it. What I object to is spending money on something I can't use to the full because of accessibility issues. I find it a double standard to some day aspire to code for a living and not be willing to pay for the product that is the end result of the coding efforts of others. Pretty iffy about the eBay route too which you suggested. Last thing I want is to get into some legal trouble with a giant like Microsoft when all I have to do is wait a bit, enroll in classes I'm going to take anyway, and get the stuff legitimately for free. Alex M On 7/29/10, Chris Hofstader <cdh@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:As we are all involved in "lifelong learning," I contend that we all qualify for the student discounted version of all software. So, go to ebay and find any of a number of resellers who charge the student rate and be done with it. If you disagree with this sort of behavior, come over to the FLOSS world where we respect your freedom as hackers to have all of the tools you will ever need and have the source code so you can, if you want, improve them or learn from them or just have fun changing them around for experimental purposes. We've loads of programming and development tools and a community to help you learn and support the whole thing. There's no ethical quandary over price, copying, hacking or doing anything you like with our programs - you are free to do whatever you like and not need to deal with ugly licenses owned by Microsoft with which you must agree or you can't even install their programs. cdh On 07/29/2010 05:26 AM, RicksPlace wrote:Hi Alex and Ken: This discussion was hashed out about 5 years ago when Ken, Will Pearson, Jamal and others were first planning the JAWS Scripts. 5 years later Ken is pretty much the sole Manager, cook and bottle washer for the JAWS Scripts. The VS 2010 costs something like $700 for that one package and it changes every couple years so it is pretty expensive for anyone not employed by a company or institution where it is provided free to the programmer. .. Perhaps WindowEyes will continue to work pretty well out of the box withVS when they implement UIA and the new Web Hooks. Also, their COM interface might offer a good platform for making VS more accessible. The PlugIn idea Ken mentioned should work very well indeed. Problem there is the development of such a PlugIn would require having the expensive version of VS and it would not work with the free version which most folks use when learning to program in one of the Visual Languages as you have seen on list over the past few months. Rick USA. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alex Midence" <alex.midence@xxxxxxxxx> To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2010 3:30 AM Subject: Re: Is Visual C++ Accessible - Was: C++ and I are getting divorced. Hi, Ken, It's a bit of a conundrum. The free version is buggy and inaccessible so, we are reluctant to use it. The paid version is well, ... expensive. Noone will want to shell out money for the paid version of a free software they couldn't access because of the fear of buying something they won't be able ot use. The ideal thing would be for someone who is enrolled in a college or university and thus able to download the full version for free to have a nice, thorough lok at it, script it and then share or sell the scripts. I'd pay for scripts if I was sure they would work. Alex M On 7/28/10, Ken Perry <whistler@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:I think its fine with Jaws as long as you use the scripts. The problem is we are not even taking advantage of half of what visual studio allows because we have one set of scripts for the free version and the pay. If we made a version of scripts for the pay version that has automation we could access everything. In fact they have made it so accessible if someone was to sit down they could re write the entire interface using the API's they have. It's not that it's not accessible it's that the current IDE is not designed for blind in mind but you see Microsoft has given us the power to make it both usable and accessible.. Ken -----Original Message----- From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Andreas Stefik Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2010 9:20 PM To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: Re: Is Visual C++ Accessible - Was: C++ and I are getting divorced. My research team just finished some usability testing with blind children using visual studio 2010 and JAWS 11. The students were able to use it to complete simple problems, but VS 2010 has a pretty large laundry list of accessibility problems, in my opinion. Stefik On Wed, Jul 28, 2010 at 1:53 PM, Katherine Moss <plymouthroamer285@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:I don't see how version 2010 is inaccessible though. I was on my desktopathome and I was placing buttons on a winform app as well as setting their properties correctly. -----Original Message----- From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of The Elf Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2010 2:30 PM To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: Re: Is Visual C++ Accessible - Was: C++ and I are gettingdivorced.VS 2005 and 2008 are both made accessible with the jaws scripts and information available at my grab bag site (URL under my name) and/or with information and/or tools available at non visualdevelopment.orgwww.NonvisualDevelopment.org and has been for years HTH, inthane Moderator, Blind Access Help Owner: Alacorn Computer Enterprises Specialists in customized computers and peripherals - own the might and majesty of a Alacorn! www.alacorncomputer.com proprietor, The Grab Bag, for blind computer users and programmers http://grabbag.alacorncomputer.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Gallik" <BillGallik@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2010 10:22 AM Subject: Is Visual C++ Accessible - Was: C++ and I are getting divorced.The last time I attempted to teach myself C++ in the Visual Studio SDE I found it basically inaccessible. Has there been a significantprogressiontoward accessibility in the Visual Studio environment? It would seem, judging from all the respondants to this thread -- that Visual Studio has indeed become more screen reader friendly. And, if so, which version(s)? ---- Holland's Person, Bill E-Mail: BillGallik@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx - The early bird may get the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese! __________ View the list's information and change your settings at //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind__________ View the list's information and change your settings at //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virussignaturedatabase 5321 (20100728) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virussignaturedatabase 5321 (20100728) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ View the list's information and change your settings at //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind__________ View the list's information and change your settings at //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind __________ View the list's information and change your settings at //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind__________ View the list's information and change your settings at //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind __________ View the list's information and change your settings at //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind__________ View the list's information and change your settings at //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind__________ View the list's information and change your settings at //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
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