My object orientded design classes were all in Java. I'd already gotten myself well into programming by the time I actually hit them, but they seemed to be a really good starting point for students who hadn't programmed before. And I certainly like Java a lot more now.
On 07/27/2010 03:47 PM, Joseph Lee wrote:
Hi, I think it all comes down to understanding what you are really doing. Sure, C++ (and other C derivatives) have syntax structure that does teach someone to be careful. It could be a nice introductory language for those who are into thinking about theories and working on their own, in my opinion. Then again, C++ is not suited for everyone who want a language like Python which has almost English-like syntax (the only problem is indenting, of course), which provides a useful transition route. I heard many colleges nowadays teach Java (so is Advanced Placement subject on CS for high school students). In short, I think it all comes down to a person's learning style and how this person understands advanced stuff later. Some may take C++ as a challenging language, while others may take it as an interesting one. Still, others might say they are somewhat in the middle - appreciating syntax yet having hard time following what's going on or something else. In my case, I'm learning C++ because the target device which I am learning about uses CPP for its development language. Just my thoughts. Cheers, Joseph -----Original Message----- From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Jared Wright Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2010 12:38 PM To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: Re: C++ and I are getting divorced. But how far do you take that idea? If you learn the stuff that C++ makes you think about, why not take that to learning Assembly? And then the basic ideas behind machine code? I would not have wanted to be thinking about those things when I was 13 and hacking together battle engines in Basic, but I sure am glad having spent a semester in college learning those things. It might not always be optimal to learn something from a bottom up approach, more or less. On 07/27/2010 03:24 PM, Tyler Littlefield wrote:Sure it's not needed, but you learn more of what your doing. Rather thancreating an array of 4096 bytes so you don't have to check for lengths and cramming itin, you learn where that array goes. The person may not be the most aware programmer even still, but it does kind of help with some of that.Thanks, Tyler Littlefield http://tds-solutions.net Twitter: sorressean On Jul 27, 2010, at 1:22 PM, Jared Wright wrote:I understand this prospective and started myself on C++, but thinkthere is a certain mindset that benefits from learning certain auxiliary features later if possible. Think of it like a video game: the video game only teaches you the gameplay elements that you need to progress to the next level and teaches you more advanced concepts when a need for their understanding arises. I think it's no secret that we learn faster and in more useful ways in a video game setting than in the more traditional academia computer science and so many other fields force down students' throats.Additionally, C++ is less used now for basic end user applicationslike those you start programming with anyway. I think something like Perl or Python is both a better initial launchpad as well as more practical in the industry moving forward. You don't even really HAVE to learn C++ now, learning C# is almost more important. Yes you learn more about deep programming concepts learning with it, but follow that logic and you should learn in machine code, no? Even ten years ago C++ was such a common language for so many types of programs. WE didn't have the nice scripting language wrappers for low level functions that we enjoy now. It made sense to learn it out of the gate, because it probably wasn't going to be too long before you truly needed to write something real in C++. Now its uses are more specialized, (and I'm talking relative to C++ ten years ago here) and I think this somewhat jeopardizes it as a good starting language. Just my thoughts, of course.On 07/27/2010 12:46 PM, Tyler Littlefield wrote:Why something "forgivving," though? IMO it's much easier to learn withsomething strict and move to other languages; not only will you code better, but you will understand more about what's going on, rather than just accept the fact that it does what you want however you may write it.Thanks, Tyler Littlefield http://tds-solutions.net Twitter: sorressean On Jul 27, 2010, at 8:16 AM, Alex Hall wrote:JS because it is, as I said, quite forgiving, and it lets you practice basics like looping and conditions without needing to worry about data types or managing projects in a massive IDE. I do not recommend giving up completely, rather, use another language to pin down the basics, get good at that language, then come back to cpp to continue learning it now that you have the concepts of OOP in your mind. On 7/27/10, Tyler Littlefield<tyler@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:javascript? Seriously? python was a good solution though, you justneed toget used to indentation. Better to keep slogging along with cpp thantoswitch half way through, because essentially your just giving up on something. Thanks, Tyler Littlefield http://tds-solutions.net Twitter: sorressean On Jul 27, 2010, at 8:09 AM, Alex Hall wrote:If you want to try programming, I recommend either Javascript (a web language, but it is forgiving and easy to understand) or Python,whichis, in my opinion, a lot easier than cpp. I definitely do not recommend giving up. As Tyler said, everyone who learns to programhasa rough time of it at first, but eventually you get better and learn from past mistakes, and learning one language that you find you likealot will help you learn other languages in the future, since they all have the underlying principles of looping, conditions, functions, and so on, though they all implement these in different ways. On 7/27/10, Tyler Littlefield<tyler@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:I guess, there is a better analogy. Nothing comes to you easy; youneedto crawl before you walk, walk before you run. Look at it like playinganinstrument. You don't just sit down and pick up a complex song in 5 minutes. Something that may help you is to go go look at code that does whatyouwant. Google for like "c++ elseif" and see what pops up. Thanks, Tyler Littlefield http://tds-solutions.net Twitter: sorressean On Jul 27, 2010, at 7:55 AM, Tyler Littlefield wrote:If you want to give up after the first few syntax errors, go forit.Otherwise, keep working, your going through what everyone wholearns c++did, and you'll get it. Thanks, Tyler Littlefield http://tds-solutions.net Twitter: sorressean On Jul 27, 2010, at 7:52 AM, Jes wrote:Lol thought I'd put a humorous subject in there to try and lift my spirits a little bit. I've been working on a project for five days straight, sacrificing sleep and other stuff to get the stupidthingdone, and I've decided that while I like programming, C++ is a bit to complicated for me at this point. I am a musician, so after I getthisbeast of an assignment done, I'm divorcing C++ and moving back tomusicfor a bit. Audio editors and sequencers all do whatever I tellthemtoo, they don't bitch at me like M S Visual Studio or GCC. As the average pc user declares, "They, just, work. " Grin. I won't be able to make anything more than simple programs,nomatter how much I like programming. __________ View the list's information and change your settings at //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind__________ View the list's information and change your settings at //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind__________ View the list's information and change your settings at //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind-- Have a great day, Alex (msg sent from GMail website) mehgcap@xxxxxxxxx; http://www.facebook.com/mehgcap __________ View the list's information and change your settings at //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind__________ View the list's information and change your settings at //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind-- Have a great day, Alex (msg sent from GMail website) mehgcap@xxxxxxxxx; http://www.facebook.com/mehgcap __________ View the list's information and change your settings at //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind__________ View the list's information and change your settings at //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind__________ View the list's information and change your settings at//www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind__________ View the list's information and change your settings at //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind__________ View the list's information and change your settings at //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind No virus found in this incoming message. 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