RE: C++ and I are getting divorced.
- From: "Joseph Lee" <joseph.lee22590@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 12:47:55 -0700
Hi,
I think it all comes down to understanding what you are really doing. Sure,
C++ (and other C derivatives) have syntax structure that does teach someone
to be careful. It could be a nice introductory language for those who are
into thinking about theories and working on their own, in my opinion. Then
again, C++ is not suited for everyone who want a language like Python which
has almost English-like syntax (the only problem is indenting, of course),
which provides a useful transition route. I heard many colleges nowadays
teach Java (so is Advanced Placement subject on CS for high school
students).
In short, I think it all comes down to a person's learning style and how
this person understands advanced stuff later. Some may take C++ as a
challenging language, while others may take it as an interesting one. Still,
others might say they are somewhat in the middle - appreciating syntax yet
having hard time following what's going on or something else. In my case,
I'm learning C++ because the target device which I am learning about uses
CPP for its development language.
Just my thoughts.
Cheers,
Joseph
-----Original Message-----
From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Jared Wright
Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2010 12:38 PM
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: C++ and I are getting divorced.
But how far do you take that idea? If you learn the stuff that C++ makes
you think about, why not take that to learning Assembly? And then the
basic ideas behind machine code? I would not have wanted to be thinking
about those things when I was 13 and hacking together battle engines
in Basic, but I sure am glad having spent a semester in college
learning those things. It might not always be optimal to learn something
from a bottom up approach, more or less.
On 07/27/2010 03:24 PM, Tyler Littlefield wrote:
> Sure it's not needed, but you learn more of what your doing. Rather than
creating an a
> rray of 4096 bytes so you don't have to check for lengths and cramming it
in, you learn where that array goes. The person may not be the most aware
programmer even still, but it does kind of help with some of that.
> Thanks,
> Tyler Littlefield
> http://tds-solutions.net
> Twitter: sorressean
>
> On Jul 27, 2010, at 1:22 PM, Jared Wright wrote:
>
>
>> I understand this prospective and started myself on C++, but think
there is a certain mindset that benefits from learning certain auxiliary
features later if possible. Think of it like a video game: the video game
only teaches you the gameplay elements that you need to progress to the
next level and teaches you more advanced concepts when a need for their
understanding arises. I think it's no secret that we learn faster and in
more useful ways in a video game setting than in the more traditional
academia computer science and so many other fields force down students'
throats.
>>
>> Additionally, C++ is less used now for basic end user applications
like those you start programming with anyway. I think something like Perl or
Python is both a better initial launchpad as well as more practical in the
industry moving forward. You don't even really HAVE to learn C++ now,
learning C# is almost more important. Yes you learn more about deep
programming concepts learning with it, but follow that logic and you
should learn in machine code, no? Even ten years ago C++ was such a common
language for so many types of programs. WE didn't have the nice scripting
language wrappers for low level functions that we enjoy now. It made
sense to learn it out of the gate, because it probably wasn't going to be
too long before you truly needed to write something real in C++. Now its
uses are more specialized, (and I'm talking relative to C++ ten years ago
here) and I think this somewhat jeopardizes it as a good starting language.
Just my thoughts, of course.
>>
>> On 07/27/2010 12:46 PM, Tyler Littlefield wrote:
>>
>>> Why something "forgivving," though? IMO it's much easier to learn with
something strict and move to other languages; not only will you code
better, but you will understand more about what's going on, rather than just
accept the fact that it does what you want however you may write it.
>>> Thanks,
>>> Tyler Littlefield
>>> http://tds-solutions.net
>>> Twitter: sorressean
>>>
>>> On Jul 27, 2010, at 8:16 AM, Alex Hall wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> JS because it is, as I said, quite forgiving, and it lets you practice
>>>> basics like looping and conditions without needing to worry about data
>>>> types or managing projects in a massive IDE. I do not recommend giving
>>>> up completely, rather, use another language to pin down the basics,
>>>> get good at that language, then come back to cpp to continue learning
>>>> it now that you have the concepts of OOP in your mind.
>>>>
>>>> On 7/27/10, Tyler Littlefield<tyler@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> javascript? Seriously? python was a good solution though, you just
need to
>>>>> get used to indentation. Better to keep slogging along with cpp than
to
>>>>> switch half way through, because essentially your just giving up on
>>>>> something.
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> Tyler Littlefield
>>>>> http://tds-solutions.net
>>>>> Twitter: sorressean
>>>>>
>>>>> On Jul 27, 2010, at 8:09 AM, Alex Hall wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> If you want to try programming, I recommend either Javascript (a web
>>>>>> language, but it is forgiving and easy to understand) or Python,
which
>>>>>> is, in my opinion, a lot easier than cpp. I definitely do not
>>>>>> recommend giving up. As Tyler said, everyone who learns to program
has
>>>>>> a rough time of it at first, but eventually you get better and learn
>>>>>> from past mistakes, and learning one language that you find you like
a
>>>>>> lot will help you learn other languages in the future, since they all
>>>>>> have the underlying principles of looping, conditions, functions, and
>>>>>> so on, though they all implement these in different ways.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 7/27/10, Tyler Littlefield<tyler@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I guess, there is a better analogy. Nothing comes to you easy; you
need
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> crawl before you walk, walk before you run. Look at it like playing
an
>>>>>>> instrument. You don't just sit down and pick up a complex song in 5
>>>>>>> minutes.
>>>>>>> Something that may help you is to go go look at code that does what
you
>>>>>>> want. Google for like "c++ elseif" and see what pops up.
>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>> Tyler Littlefield
>>>>>>> http://tds-solutions.net
>>>>>>> Twitter: sorressean
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Jul 27, 2010, at 7:55 AM, Tyler Littlefield wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If you want to give up after the first few syntax errors, go for
it.
>>>>>>>> Otherwise, keep working, your going through what everyone who
learns c++
>>>>>>>> did, and you'll get it.
>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>> Tyler Littlefield
>>>>>>>> http://tds-solutions.net
>>>>>>>> Twitter: sorressean
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Jul 27, 2010, at 7:52 AM, Jes wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Lol thought I'd put a humorous subject in there to try and lift my
>>>>>>>>> spirits a little bit. I've been working on a project for five days
>>>>>>>>> straight, sacrificing sleep and other stuff to get the stupid
thing
>>>>>>>>> done,
>>>>>>>>> and I've decided that while I like programming, C++ is a bit to
>>>>>>>>> complicated for me at this point. I am a musician, so after I get
this
>>>>>>>>> beast of an assignment done, I'm divorcing C++ and moving back to
music
>>>>>>>>> for a bit. Audio editors and sequencers all do whatever I tell
them
>>>>>>>>> too,
>>>>>>>>> they don't bitch at me like M S Visual Studio or GCC.
>>>>>>>>> As the average pc user declares, "They, just, work. "
>>>>>>>>> Grin. I won't be able to make anything more than simple programs,
no
>>>>>>>>> matter how much I like programming.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> __________
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>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Have a great day,
>>>>>> Alex (msg sent from GMail website)
>>>>>> mehgcap@xxxxxxxxx; http://www.facebook.com/mehgcap
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Have a great day,
>>>> Alex (msg sent from GMail website)
>>>> mehgcap@xxxxxxxxx; http://www.facebook.com/mehgcap
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