I completely agree. Just as it became generally no longer necessary to learn about manipulating computer registers in assembler, it is no longer necessary, in general, to learn about the memory management that C requires. It is not helpful to send a beginner down the minefield of C or C++ in the belief that it will build their character. I think it is better to start with a language that is simpler and more forgiving, thus giving them the experience of successful programming, including simple GUIs after starting with console programs (hardly anyone develops a GUI with native C anymore).
Building successful, genuinely useful programs increases one's confidence and passion about the power of programming. Tripping over every other step discourages one. I started with higher level languages, have gone as low as C# afterward, and been gratified by the results of that path.
I recommend that beginners start with AutoIT, Visual Basic .NET, Python, or Ruby. Each of these has pros and cons, and I wish there was a single language that combined the best of them. As the Sodbeans project grows from experience, a beginner should also consider that environment.
Jamal On 7/27/2010 3:22 PM, Jared Wright wrote:
I understand this prospective and started myself on C++, but think there is a certain mindset that benefits from learning certain auxiliary features later if possible. Think of it like a video game: the video game only teaches you the gameplay elements that you need to progress to the next level and teaches you more advanced concepts when a need for their understanding arises. I think it's no secret that we learn faster and in more useful ways in a video game setting than in the more traditional academia computer science and so many other fields force down students' throats. Additionally, C++ is less used now for basic end user applications like those you start programming with anyway. I think something like Perl or Python is both a better initial launchpad as well as more practical in the industry moving forward. You don't even really HAVE to learn C++ now, learning C# is almost more important. Yes you learn more about deep programming concepts learning with it, but follow that logic and you should learn in machine code, no? Even ten years ago C++ was such a common language for so many types of programs. WE didn't have the nice scripting language wrappers for low level functions that we enjoy now. It made sense to learn it out of the gate, because it probably wasn't going to be too long before you truly needed to write something real in C++. Now its uses are more specialized, (and I'm talking relative to C++ ten years ago here) and I think this somewhat jeopardizes it as a good starting language. Just my thoughts, of course. On 07/27/2010 12:46 PM, Tyler Littlefield wrote:Why something "forgivving," though? IMO it's much easier to learn with something strict and move to other languages; not only will you code better, but you will understand more about what's going on, rather than just accept the fact that it does what you want however you may write it. Thanks, Tyler Littlefield http://tds-solutions.net Twitter: sorressean On Jul 27, 2010, at 8:16 AM, Alex Hall wrote:JS because it is, as I said, quite forgiving, and it lets you practice basics like looping and conditions without needing to worry about data types or managing projects in a massive IDE. I do not recommend giving up completely, rather, use another language to pin down the basics, get good at that language, then come back to cpp to continue learning it now that you have the concepts of OOP in your mind. On 7/27/10, Tyler Littlefield<tyler@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:javascript? Seriously? python was a good solution though, you just need to get used to indentation. Better to keep slogging along with cpp than to switch half way through, because essentially your just giving up on something. Thanks, Tyler Littlefield http://tds-solutions.net Twitter: sorressean On Jul 27, 2010, at 8:09 AM, Alex Hall wrote:If you want to try programming, I recommend either Javascript (a web language, but it is forgiving and easy to understand) or Python, which is, in my opinion, a lot easier than cpp. I definitely do not recommend giving up. As Tyler said, everyone who learns to program has a rough time of it at first, but eventually you get better and learn from past mistakes, and learning one language that you find you like a lot will help you learn other languages in the future, since they all have the underlying principles of looping, conditions, functions, and so on, though they all implement these in different ways. On 7/27/10, Tyler Littlefield<tyler@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:I guess, there is a better analogy. Nothing comes to you easy; you need to crawl before you walk, walk before you run. Look at it like playing an instrument. You don't just sit down and pick up a complex song in 5 minutes. Something that may help you is to go go look at code that does what you want. Google for like "c++ elseif" and see what pops up. Thanks, Tyler Littlefield http://tds-solutions.net Twitter: sorressean On Jul 27, 2010, at 7:55 AM, Tyler Littlefield wrote:If you want to give up after the first few syntax errors, go for it. Otherwise, keep working, your going through what everyone who learns c++ did, and you'll get it. Thanks, Tyler Littlefield http://tds-solutions.net Twitter: sorressean On Jul 27, 2010, at 7:52 AM, Jes wrote:Lol thought I'd put a humorous subject in there to try and lift my spirits a little bit. I've been working on a project for five days straight, sacrificing sleep and other stuff to get the stupid thing done, and I've decided that while I like programming, C++ is a bit to complicated for me at this point. I am a musician, so after I get this beast of an assignment done, I'm divorcing C++ and moving back to music for a bit. Audio editors and sequencers all do whatever I tell them too, they don't bitch at me like M S Visual Studio or GCC. As the average pc user declares, "They, just, work. " Grin. I won't be able to make anything more than simple programs, no matter how much I like programming. __________ View the list's information and change your settings at //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind__________ View the list's information and change your settings at //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind__________ View the list's information and change your settings at //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind-- Have a great day, Alex (msg sent from GMail website) mehgcap@xxxxxxxxx; http://www.facebook.com/mehgcap __________ View the list's information and change your settings at //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind__________ View the list's information and change your settings at //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind-- Have a great day, Alex (msg sent from GMail website) mehgcap@xxxxxxxxx; http://www.facebook.com/mehgcap __________ View the list's information and change your settings at //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind__________ View the list's information and change your settings at //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind__________ View the list's information and change your settings at //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
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