[opendtv] Re: Transition Begins?
- From: "Dale Kelly" <dalekelly@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Wed, 18 May 2005 20:06:46 -0700
John wrote:
> Something else: the interference rules were changed (loosened) when the
>FCC adopted the DTV r&o and the LPTV Class A upgrade window.
Bob,
John is correct and this is why one can occasionally find available
channels today where none existed only a few years ago.
A good example is to consider the current channel population on
LA's Mt. Wilson. A few years ago such conjestion was not
possible due to the inforcement of the FCC's UHF "taboo" spacing.
The Santa Barbara Market, being sandwiched in between LA and the
two Central Valley Markets, simply could not accommodate additional
channels assignments prior to the FCC's DTV 5/6 th R&O, which did
indeed loosen certain spacing requirements.
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Willkie" <JohnWillkie@xxxxxxxxxx>
To: <opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2005 10:50 AM
Subject: [opendtv] Re: Transition Begins?
> So, I am to be led to believe that you suppositions are better than my
> frequency searches? On what planet?
>
> First, few people know how to do real frequency searches. After much
> trial
> and error, I figured out more than 20 years ago, you do it backwards: you
> show the INTERFERENCE area created by each station, and you look into the
> white areas. Most people do it stupidly, or forwards: can I apply for
> channel x through y here?
>
> I'll bet you $1,000 that you cannot find a useable frequency (in other
> words, at a buildable site) in Santa Barbara. Hint: I've actually done
> the
> field and leg work, and finding a frequency is the EASY part! Second
> hint:
> these people already had a site. Then, when you start playing off
> "population served" versus the available (few) buildable sites, the
> situation becomes clearer.
>
> Something else: the interference rules were changed (loosened) when the
> FCC
> adopted the DTV r&o and the LPTV Class A upgrade window.
>
> In NYC, the problem was not the lack of useable sites. It probably had
> more
> to do with "I don't want to run a TV station on three different channels."
>
> Funny how you don't seem to understand these considerations; I guess it's
> just too much detail for you.
>
> John Willkie
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bob Miller" <bob@xxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2005 9:46 PM
> Subject: [opendtv] Re: Transition Begins?
>
>
>> NYC where I have watched as a friend discovered and took advantage of
>> three "frequencies" that had been combed over for years by many others
>> who found nothing. He now has those three frequencies that cover most of
>> the city as LPTV stations.
>>
>> You may be right and there are no possibilities in Santa Barbara. I am
>> sure they looked but I wouldn't be surprised if there is something there.
>>
>> Also this station didn't make any decision in the early 1990's, they
>> didn't exist then. They were granted a construction permit for channel
>> 55 on March 17th 2005. That is more than a year after Qualcomm won that
>> channel at auction and they have been quite vocal that they intended to
>> do something with it as soon as possible.
>>
>> If they could not find something in the core to move to why bother with
>> 55 at all? Or second best find something unowned above the core. That
>> way they might have a few years.
>>
>> One other question. You say with a few frequency searches you eliminated
>> any possible station they could have moved to. But 55 must have been
>> available since they did find that one.
>>
>> And my friend who discovered those LPTV stations in NYC didn't do it
>> with a few frequency searches. It took him years of looking and fiddling
>> as far as I could see.
>>
>> Bob Miller
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> John Willkie wrote:
>>
>> >Having done a few frequency searches in the Santa Barbara area (and
> finding
>> >no channels available at ANY site in the early 1990's) the answer is
> easy:
>> >there were no other better choices.
>> >
>> >Exactly what world do you live in?
>> >
>> >John Willkie
>> >----- Original Message -----
>> >From: "Bob Miller" <bob@xxxxxxxxxx>
>> >To: <opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> >Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2005 2:07 PM
>> >Subject: [opendtv] Transition Begins?
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >>I have been told that Qualcomm is forcing an LPTV station #55 off the
>> >>air in Santa Barbara. If so I think this would be the first shot in the
>> >>coming transition. Why this station, K46GC, moved from a core channel,
>> >>46, to an out of core channel, 55, is beyond me. Especially since this
>> >>channel 55 has already been sold to Qualcomm.
>> >>
>> >>Bob Miller
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >>You can UNSUBSCRIBE from the OpenDTV list in two ways:
>> >>
>> >>- Using the UNSUBSCRIBE command in your user configuration settings at
>> >>
>> >>
>> >FreeLists.org
>> >
>> >
>> >>- By sending a message to: opendtv-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word
>> >>
>> >>
>> >unsubscribe in the subject line.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >You can UNSUBSCRIBE from the OpenDTV list in two ways:
>> >
>> >- Using the UNSUBSCRIBE command in your user configuration settings at
> FreeLists.org
>> >
>> >- By sending a message to: opendtv-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word
> unsubscribe in the subject line.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> You can UNSUBSCRIBE from the OpenDTV list in two ways:
>>
>> - Using the UNSUBSCRIBE command in your user configuration settings at
> FreeLists.org
>>
>> - By sending a message to: opendtv-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word
> unsubscribe in the subject line.
>>
>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> You can UNSUBSCRIBE from the OpenDTV list in two ways:
>
> - Using the UNSUBSCRIBE command in your user configuration settings at
> FreeLists.org
>
> - By sending a message to: opendtv-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word
> unsubscribe in the subject line.
>
>
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Willkie" <JohnWillkie@xxxxxxxxxx>
To: <opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2005 10:50 AM
Subject: [opendtv] Re: Transition Begins?
> So, I am to be led to believe that you suppositions are better than my
> frequency searches? On what planet?
>
> First, few people know how to do real frequency searches. After much
> trial
> and error, I figured out more than 20 years ago, you do it backwards: you
> show the INTERFERENCE area created by each station, and you look into the
> white areas. Most people do it stupidly, or forwards: can I apply for
> channel x through y here?
>
> I'll bet you $1,000 that you cannot find a useable frequency (in other
> words, at a buildable site) in Santa Barbara. Hint: I've actually done
> the
> field and leg work, and finding a frequency is the EASY part! Second
> hint:
> these people already had a site. Then, when you start playing off
> "population served" versus the available (few) buildable sites, the
> situation becomes clearer.
>
> Something else: the interference rules were changed (loosened) when the
> FCC
> adopted the DTV r&o and the LPTV Class A upgrade window.
>
> In NYC, the problem was not the lack of useable sites. It probably had
> more
> to do with "I don't want to run a TV station on three different channels."
>
> Funny how you don't seem to understand these considerations; I guess it's
> just too much detail for you.
>
> John Willkie
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bob Miller" <bob@xxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2005 9:46 PM
> Subject: [opendtv] Re: Transition Begins?
>
>
>> NYC where I have watched as a friend discovered and took advantage of
>> three "frequencies" that had been combed over for years by many others
>> who found nothing. He now has those three frequencies that cover most of
>> the city as LPTV stations.
>>
>> You may be right and there are no possibilities in Santa Barbara. I am
>> sure they looked but I wouldn't be surprised if there is something there.
>>
>> Also this station didn't make any decision in the early 1990's, they
>> didn't exist then. They were granted a construction permit for channel
>> 55 on March 17th 2005. That is more than a year after Qualcomm won that
>> channel at auction and they have been quite vocal that they intended to
>> do something with it as soon as possible.
>>
>> If they could not find something in the core to move to why bother with
>> 55 at all? Or second best find something unowned above the core. That
>> way they might have a few years.
>>
>> One other question. You say with a few frequency searches you eliminated
>> any possible station they could have moved to. But 55 must have been
>> available since they did find that one.
>>
>> And my friend who discovered those LPTV stations in NYC didn't do it
>> with a few frequency searches. It took him years of looking and fiddling
>> as far as I could see.
>>
>> Bob Miller
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> John Willkie wrote:
>>
>> >Having done a few frequency searches in the Santa Barbara area (and
> finding
>> >no channels available at ANY site in the early 1990's) the answer is
> easy:
>> >there were no other better choices.
>> >
>> >Exactly what world do you live in?
>> >
>> >John Willkie
>> >----- Original Message -----
>> >From: "Bob Miller" <bob@xxxxxxxxxx>
>> >To: <opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> >Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2005 2:07 PM
>> >Subject: [opendtv] Transition Begins?
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >>I have been told that Qualcomm is forcing an LPTV station #55 off the
>> >>air in Santa Barbara. If so I think this would be the first shot in the
>> >>coming transition. Why this station, K46GC, moved from a core channel,
>> >>46, to an out of core channel, 55, is beyond me. Especially since this
>> >>channel 55 has already been sold to Qualcomm.
>> >>
>> >>Bob Miller
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >>You can UNSUBSCRIBE from the OpenDTV list in two ways:
>> >>
>> >>- Using the UNSUBSCRIBE command in your user configuration settings at
>> >>
>> >>
>> >FreeLists.org
>> >
>> >
>> >>- By sending a message to: opendtv-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word
>> >>
>> >>
>> >unsubscribe in the subject line.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >You can UNSUBSCRIBE from the OpenDTV list in two ways:
>> >
>> >- Using the UNSUBSCRIBE command in your user configuration settings at
> FreeLists.org
>> >
>> >- By sending a message to: opendtv-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word
> unsubscribe in the subject line.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> You can UNSUBSCRIBE from the OpenDTV list in two ways:
>>
>> - Using the UNSUBSCRIBE command in your user configuration settings at
> FreeLists.org
>>
>> - By sending a message to: opendtv-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word
> unsubscribe in the subject line.
>>
>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> You can UNSUBSCRIBE from the OpenDTV list in two ways:
>
> - Using the UNSUBSCRIBE command in your user configuration settings at
> FreeLists.org
>
> - By sending a message to: opendtv-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word
> unsubscribe in the subject line.
>
>
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Willkie" <JohnWillkie@xxxxxxxxxx>
To: <opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2005 10:50 AM
Subject: [opendtv] Re: Transition Begins?
> So, I am to be led to believe that you suppositions are better than my
> frequency searches? On what planet?
>
> First, few people know how to do real frequency searches. After much
> trial
> and error, I figured out more than 20 years ago, you do it backwards: you
> show the INTERFERENCE area created by each station, and you look into the
> white areas. Most people do it stupidly, or forwards: can I apply for
> channel x through y here?
>
> I'll bet you $1,000 that you cannot find a useable frequency (in other
> words, at a buildable site) in Santa Barbara. Hint: I've actually done
> the
> field and leg work, and finding a frequency is the EASY part! Second
> hint:
> these people already had a site. Then, when you start playing off
> "population served" versus the available (few) buildable sites, the
> situation becomes clearer.
>
> Something else: the interference rules were changed (loosened) when the
> FCC
> adopted the DTV r&o and the LPTV Class A upgrade window.
>
> In NYC, the problem was not the lack of useable sites. It probably had
> more
> to do with "I don't want to run a TV station on three different channels."
>
> Funny how you don't seem to understand these considerations; I guess it's
> just too much detail for you.
>
> John Willkie
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bob Miller" <bob@xxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2005 9:46 PM
> Subject: [opendtv] Re: Transition Begins?
>
>
>> NYC where I have watched as a friend discovered and took advantage of
>> three "frequencies" that had been combed over for years by many others
>> who found nothing. He now has those three frequencies that cover most of
>> the city as LPTV stations.
>>
>> You may be right and there are no possibilities in Santa Barbara. I am
>> sure they looked but I wouldn't be surprised if there is something there.
>>
>> Also this station didn't make any decision in the early 1990's, they
>> didn't exist then. They were granted a construction permit for channel
>> 55 on March 17th 2005. That is more than a year after Qualcomm won that
>> channel at auction and they have been quite vocal that they intended to
>> do something with it as soon as possible.
>>
>> If they could not find something in the core to move to why bother with
>> 55 at all? Or second best find something unowned above the core. That
>> way they might have a few years.
>>
>> One other question. You say with a few frequency searches you eliminated
>> any possible station they could have moved to. But 55 must have been
>> available since they did find that one.
>>
>> And my friend who discovered those LPTV stations in NYC didn't do it
>> with a few frequency searches. It took him years of looking and fiddling
>> as far as I could see.
>>
>> Bob Miller
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> John Willkie wrote:
>>
>> >Having done a few frequency searches in the Santa Barbara area (and
> finding
>> >no channels available at ANY site in the early 1990's) the answer is
> easy:
>> >there were no other better choices.
>> >
>> >Exactly what world do you live in?
>> >
>> >John Willkie
>> >----- Original Message -----
>> >From: "Bob Miller" <bob@xxxxxxxxxx>
>> >To: <opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> >Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2005 2:07 PM
>> >Subject: [opendtv] Transition Begins?
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >>I have been told that Qualcomm is forcing an LPTV station #55 off the
>> >>air in Santa Barbara. If so I think this would be the first shot in the
>> >>coming transition. Why this station, K46GC, moved from a core channel,
>> >>46, to an out of core channel, 55, is beyond me. Especially since this
>> >>channel 55 has already been sold to Qualcomm.
>> >>
>> >>Bob Miller
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >>You can UNSUBSCRIBE from the OpenDTV list in two ways:
>> >>
>> >>- Using the UNSUBSCRIBE command in your user configuration settings at
>> >>
>> >>
>> >FreeLists.org
>> >
>> >
>> >>- By sending a message to: opendtv-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word
>> >>
>> >>
>> >unsubscribe in the subject line.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >You can UNSUBSCRIBE from the OpenDTV list in two ways:
>> >
>> >- Using the UNSUBSCRIBE command in your user configuration settings at
> FreeLists.org
>> >
>> >- By sending a message to: opendtv-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word
> unsubscribe in the subject line.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> You can UNSUBSCRIBE from the OpenDTV list in two ways:
>>
>> - Using the UNSUBSCRIBE command in your user configuration settings at
> FreeLists.org
>>
>> - By sending a message to: opendtv-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word
> unsubscribe in the subject line.
>>
>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> You can UNSUBSCRIBE from the OpenDTV list in two ways:
>
> - Using the UNSUBSCRIBE command in your user configuration settings at
> FreeLists.org
>
> - By sending a message to: opendtv-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word
> unsubscribe in the subject line.
>
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You can UNSUBSCRIBE from the OpenDTV list in two ways:
- Using the UNSUBSCRIBE command in your user configuration settings at
FreeLists.org
- By sending a message to: opendtv-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word
unsubscribe in the subject line.
Other related posts:
