[lit-ideas] Re: one of Exit Ghost's political points
- From: "Veronica Caley" <molleo1@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2008 15:30:09 -0500
<That's not to say literature is useless, it has a place, and I like
literature. It's just not particularly useful, that's all.>
I find literature very useful. It helps shed light on lives I can't live
because I can only live my own. It teaches what life was like in other times
and places. It teaches that some behaviors are not acceptable because it is
bad for society and for oneself.
Sometimes people ask me who my favorite teacher was.
I always say that they are the ones who taught me to read, which in my case
were several, in as much as at ten years old I couldn't read in any language.
I grieve over the fact that I don't remember any of their names. I had no idea
what treasure they were imparting.
Veronica
----- Original Message -----
From: Andy
To: lit-ideas
Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 7:26 AM
Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: one of Exit Ghost's political points
--- On Sat, 11/1/08, Mike Geary <atlas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>Disillusionment is just divesting one's self of illusions.
Mike: Well, yes, by definition, I guess.
Andy: I'll take definition. I think you came to bury Cesar by
underhandedly praising him with the slur of 'maturity', some horrible,
undefined condition which presumably allows one to see reality as opposed to
this wondrous place called illusion.
>>Illusions in my opinion are built on sadness and anger.
Mike: Really? I'd say they're mostly built on beliefs that have
little or no relationship to reality. What the hell reality is, I have no
idea. But if something doesn't work, it's probably not anchored in reality.
That's a transcendental truth, just ask Walter.
Andy: The underlying question being, why would one develop beliefs
that have little or no relationship to reality unless reality were the
condition one were escaping? One does not escape good feelings. As far as
what is reality, reality is that boring place where people see the world,
themselves and each other for what they are instead of what they want
everything to be. Unfortunately, most, an awful lot anyway, don't know what
they themselves are let alone what somebody else is. I kind of compare it to
illegal immigrants coming to this country to make a better life. Why not just
stay where you are and make a better life? The analogy isn't perfect because
that's a political thing, but you get the idea. Or you probably don't, so just
take my word for it. Also, the world is not working. Look around you. It's
not working, so admittedly it's not anchored in reality.
>>Maturity in my opinion is the unencumbered but appropriate flow of
emotions.
Mike: I really and truly don't know what this means.
Andy: Well, as an example, instead of spouting racism or sexism or
ageism or whatever, if people would look at what they don't like in themselves
and accept it (not necessarily fix it, just accept it and say it's okay), they
would most likely feel the feelings that drove the need to project their
badness onto someone else and the resulting need to hate their badness that
they see in others. Ultimately hate is just fossilized anger, anger that's
entombed, not flowing. By feeling the feelings as the energy in motion, or
e-motion, or emotion, that they are, without hurting anybody or anything, the
energy would flow and just go away and the need to suppress or convert it would
go away. The problem is that stuff is out of awareness, which is to say,
unconscious. If you can't see or feel something, it doesn't exist, right? So
the problem is with the other guy, right? And here we are, never ending war,
greed, and on and on.
>>As far as seeing humanity for what it is, well, humanity is what it
is. You tell me what it is, Mike.
Mike; That's what novelists do. That's what Bellows does. That's
what I'm trying to do even better than Bellows. Humanity is whatever humans
want, need, love, suffer, crave, think, believe, feel, do, etc.
Andy: Humanity is what it does, and humanity is not doing much
that's positive, and never has, unless you think never ending war and greed and
needing another planet in 20 years to sustain itself due to greed is
particularly positive. And novelists are the *last* people in my opinion to
know anything. They're just more blind people describing the same elephant,
only they put their impressions down on paper for others to admire. Sounds a
bit harsh but it's true. In all the years I read literature I learned nothing
particularly useful. That's not to say literature is useless, it has a place,
and I like literature. It's just not particularly useful, that's all.
>>I can't think of an author that I particularly like.
Mike: That's very sad.
Andy: Maybe. But on the other hand, reality is sooo much more
interesting. I mean, the financial catastrophe which who knows where it's
going, peak oil, climate change, the something like 50% of the world's opium
supply that went missing who knows why and on and on. I don't get distressed
by any of it because, unlike everyone else, I know I'm not going to live
forever so what will be will be. I'l just watch and follow it and see what, if
anything, happens.
>>No doubt you came to praise Cesar, not to bury him...
Mike: Huh?
Andy: Or in the immortal words of Saul Bellows, that evil twin of
Saul Bellow, get out.
Mike: My point was that I find Bellows just as interesting as when I
first read him, actually much more so,
Andy: Ah, but if you read Saul Bellow, you'd see my point.
For Eric. Eric, comere (or as Sal Bellows would say, come here).
Let me give you a hug. Squirt goes the flower in the lapel, all over Eric! Ha
ha! Gotcha! Oh that was so much fun. Let's do it again. Comere Eric...
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