[lit-ideas] Re: one of Exit Ghost's political points

  • From: Andy <mimi.erva@xxxxxxxxx>
  • To: lit-ideas <lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2008 05:26:39 -0700 (PDT)

--- On Sat, 11/1/08, Mike Geary <atlas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

>>Disillusionment is just divesting one's self of illusions.
Mike:  Well, yes, by definition, I guess.
Andy:  I'll take definition.  I think you came to bury Cesar by underhandedly 
praising him with the slur of 'maturity', some horrible, undefined condition 
which presumably allows one to see reality as opposed to this wondrous place 
called illusion.
>>Illusions in my opinion are built on sadness and anger.
Mike:  Really?  I'd say they're mostly built on beliefs that have little or 
no relationship to reality.  What the hell reality is, I have no idea.  But if 
something doesn't work, it's probably not anchored in reality.  That's a 
transcendental truth, just ask Walter.
Andy:  The underlying question being, why would one develop beliefs that have 
little or no relationship to reality unless reality were the condition one were 
escaping?  One does not escape good feelings.  As far as what is reality, 
reality is that boring place where people see the world, themselves and each 
other for what they are instead of what they want everything to be.  
Unfortunately, most, an awful lot anyway, don't know what they themselves are 
let alone what somebody else is.  I kind of compare it to illegal immigrants 
coming to this country to make a better life.  Why not just stay where you are 
and make a better life?  The analogy isn't perfect because that's a political 
thing, but you get the idea.  Or you probably don't, so just take my word for 
it.  Also, the world is not working.  Look around you.  It's not working, so 
admittedly it's not anchored in reality.
>>Maturity in my opinion is the unencumbered but appropriate flow of emotions. 
Mike:  I really and truly don't know what this means.
Andy:  Well, as an example, instead of spouting racism or sexism or ageism or 
whatever, if people would look at what they don't like in themselves and accept 
it (not necessarily fix it, just accept it and say it's okay), they would most 
likely feel the feelings that drove the need to project their badness onto 
someone else and the resulting need to hate their badness that they see in 
others.  Ultimately hate is just fossilized anger, anger that's entombed, not 
flowing.  By feeling the feelings as the energy in motion, or e-motion, or 
emotion, that they are, without hurting anybody or anything, the energy would 
flow and just go away and the need to suppress or convert it would go away.  
The problem is that stuff is out of awareness, which is to say, unconscious.  
If you can't see or feel something, it doesn't exist, right?  So the problem is 
with the other guy, right?  And here we are, never ending war, greed, and on 
and on.
>>As far as seeing humanity for what it is, well, humanity is what it is.  You 
>>tell me what it is, Mike.
Mike;  That's what novelists do.  That's what Bellows does.  That's what I'm 
trying to do even better than Bellows.  Humanity is whatever humans want, need, 
love, suffer, crave, think, believe, feel, do, etc.
Andy:  Humanity is what it does, and humanity is not doing much that's 
positive, and never has, unless you think never ending war and greed and 
needing another planet in 20 years to sustain itself due to greed is 
particularly positive.  And novelists are the *last* people in my opinion to 
know anything.  They're just more blind people describing the same elephant, 
only they put their impressions down on paper for others to admire.  Sounds a 
bit harsh but it's true.  In all the years I read literature I learned nothing 
particularly useful.  That's not to say literature is useless, it has a place, 
and I like literature.  It's just not particularly useful, that's all.  
>>I can't think of an author that I particularly like.  
Mike:  That's very sad. 
Andy:  Maybe.  But on the other hand, reality is sooo much more interesting.  I 
mean, the financial catastrophe which who knows where it's going, peak oil, 
climate change, the something like 50% of the world's opium supply that went 
missing who knows why and on and on.  I don't get distressed by any of it 
because, unlike everyone else, I know I'm not going to live forever so what 
will be will be.  I'l just watch and follow it and see what, if anything, 
>>No doubt you came to praise Cesar, not to bury him...
Mike:  Huh?
Andy:  Or in the immortal words of Saul Bellows, that evil twin of Saul Bellow, 
get out.
Mike:  My point was that I find Bellows just as interesting as when I first 
read him, actually much more so,  
Andy:  Ah, but if you read Saul Bellow, you'd see my point.   
For Eric.  Eric, comere (or as Sal Bellows would say, come here).  Let me give 
you a hug.  Squirt goes the flower in the lapel, all over Eric!  Ha ha!  
Gotcha!  Oh that was so much fun.  Let's do it again.  Comere Eric...


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