>Where are all these moderates of yours and how are they >opposing Jihadism in the Middle East. I know that since >the Indonesian election there is back and forth between >Islamists and traditionalists and moderates, but that isn't >quite the same as rolling back Jihadism now is it? I suspect there's no evidence that would satisfy you as whatever was produced, you'd say 'but that isn't opposing Jihadism in the Middle East/rolling back Jihadism'. But I'll go ahead anyway. 103 days ago, Alan Johnson was abducted in Gaza, by an Islamist group http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/6518185.stm You can sign the petition for his release here http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_depth/world/2007/alan_johnston/default.stm The timeline is here http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/6518873.stm I excerpt, ignoring protests by Muslims, for Johnston, in Muslim countries outside the Middle East (and this list does not include all protests by Muslims within the Middle East) 'Gaza has seen numerous demonstrations in support of the BBC correspondent, and last Wednesday Palestinian journalists staged a strike. There have also been numerous international demands for his immediate release, including from the Arab League, ' http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/6492737.stm Saudi called for his release http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/6508499.stm Palestinian journalists called for a boycott of coverage of their government as a protest at their not doing enough to get him released http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/6514551.stm another Gaza protest http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/6533357.stm International Day of Action including Gaza City http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/6546059.stm Palestinians set up a website for him http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/6580737.stm here it is http://free-alan.com/ rallies in UK and Middle East http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/6590335.stm Hamas calls for his release http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/6612329.stm Iran condemns his kidnap http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/6650923.stm Hamas demands his release http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/6757209.stm Hamas issues ultimatum http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/6764679.stm that ultimatum expires on Monday. But, you will say, all these people are Jihadists..... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lawrence Helm" <lawrencehelm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> To: <lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Saturday, June 23, 2007 10:37 PM Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: More on Indonesia Radicalism: Phil wrote: "Lawrence may close one eye and stare only in one direction but there is no reason why anyone else should." Lawrence replies: Baloney! Since you say you read my notes then you must be very forgetful. I challenged Omar on several occasions to produce these vaunted moderates he believed in. The best he could do were some in Gulf States friendly to the U.S., in Christian Lebanon and a professor in Pakistan who wrote his moderate articles solely in English. I have been looking for Moderates with both eyes Phil and haven't found them. Note once again for the quibblers. I am talking about the Middle East, the place causing us all the trouble. I am not talking about Moderates in the U.S or Europe. In fact they are an indication of the tyranny of Fundamentalist thinking in the Middle East that these moderates feel it necessary to flee to the freedom of the West. We did find one moderate in Iran, but it developed that he was part of the original Khomeini revolution and untouchable - sort of -- until he got beat up and fled to the U.S. Where were you when I was challenging Omar? Where are all these moderates of yours and how are they opposing Jihadism in the Middle East. I know that since the Indonesian election there is back and forth between Islamists and traditionalists and moderates, but that isn't quite the same as rolling back Jihadism now is it? Lawrence ------------Original Message------------ From: "Phil Enns" <phil.enns@xxxxxxxxxxx> To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Sat, Jun-23-2007 1:14 PM Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: More on Indonesia Radicalism: Lawrence Helm wrote: "As a matter of fact I discussed all these matters at great length. You must have evaded my long notes." Nope. I think I have read most of what you have written. Putting a great deal of time and energy into something is not the same thing as getting work accomplished. You write a great deal but very little work gets done. I do appreciate your putting me on to a variety of writers, though. Lawrence continues: "And you are evading the point that your vaunted Indonesian moderation IS NOT HOLDING OUT EFFECTIVELY AGAINST EXTREMISM! They are losing ground. It would take a wiser person, perhaps a god, to know this. But I understand why you want it to be true. I return to my original point that there are many Muslims and influential Islamic institutions self-identifying as moderate in explicit opposition to extremism. Lawrence may close one eye and stare only in one direction but there is no reason why anyone else should. Sincerely, Phil Enns ------------------------------------------------------------------ To change your Lit-Ideas settings (subscribe/unsub, vacation on/off, digest on/off), visit www.andreas.com/faq-lit-ideas.html ------------------------------------------------------------------ To change your Lit-Ideas settings (subscribe/unsub, vacation on/off, digest on/off), visit www.andreas.com/faq-lit-ideas.html ------------------------------------------------------------------ To change your Lit-Ideas settings (subscribe/unsub, vacation on/off, digest on/off), visit www.andreas.com/faq-lit-ideas.html