[lit-ideas] Re: Illegal Immigration
- From: "Mike Geary" <atlas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 15:38:57 -0500
I wrote:
>> "Raise the minimum wage. It's as simple as that. Make the minimum wage in
>> this country a living, family, saving wage."
Phil demurs:
> This wouldn't work because there are poorer people in other countries
> willing to do the work for less pay.
But they can't. The employer can't legally pay less than the minimum wage.
Don't you get it? Marlena feels the pain of her unemployed friends and blames
the Mexicans for keeping wages down. The Mexicans aren't keeping wages down,
the farmers are. They're able to because they're mostly exempt from minimum
wage laws. Don't let them be. Raise the minimum wage to at least $10 an hour
then Marlena's friends will all run to pick cucumbers ten hours a day. Workers
will compete in productivity, not wages. But of course, the farmers won't then
contribute to the congressmen's reelection campaigns.
> And they deserve to have a shot at a
> good life as much as anyone else.
Agreed, absolutely.
> It seems to me that Mike's solution is
> merely an extension of the problem, namely that having more money can solve
> whatever problems one is facing.
That seems a bizarre reading of what I said. I merely proposed that if you're
worried about migrant workers keeping wages down, then set a minimum wage by
law. Don't blame the workers. Hell, don't even blame the farmers -- blame
capitalism. Then take ameliorative action.
> Instead, it seems to me that one way of
> improving the lot of the poor is giving them a better opportunity for making
> a decent living. At a minimum I would think this includes a decent
> education and access to decent health care. An educated, healthy work force
> attracts work and a better standard of living.
I certainly agree with all that. But that doesn't address the problem of low
wages as decried by Marlena and Andy. They blame the immigrants. I blame the
system and would make changes to it.
> The wealthy already shoulder a great deal of the tax burden.
Poor dears. According to the UN's Human Development Report released this week:
"The 500 richest individuals [in the world] have a combined income greater than
that of the poorest 416 million." And according to the Economist Magazine,
executive take home pay relative to factory floor workers pay among various
countries is: Japan 11 times greater
Germany 12 times
France 15 times
Italy 20 times
Canada 20 times
South Africa 21 times
Britain 22 times
Hong Kong 41 times
Mexico 47 times
USA 475 times.
Did you get that? In the US, executives (who do nothing, after all) make 475
times more income than the working stiffs who do the work!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You
want me to cry for those slugs???? Sorry. Let them make whatever they can,
but tax their asses down to $20,000 take home pay, I say. If they want more,
let them work for it down on the floor.
> If you don't
> like the crooks in office, why fight to give them more loot to plunder?
Good point. Obviously sweeping changes must be make. Or we could just berate
the immigrants and keep them out.
> For example, instead of
> subsidizing areas of the U.S. economy that cannot compete in the global
> market, why not use that money to establish a universal health care system
> that will raise the standards of the labour force? If the government wants
> to support business, give them better workers so that they can better
> compete.
Now you're talking.
Mike Geary
Memphis
----- Original Message -----
From: "Phil Enns" <phil.enns@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2005 11:47 AM
Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Illegal Immigration
> Mike Geary wrote:
>
> "Raise the minimum wage. It's as simple as that. Make the minimum wage in
> this country a living, family, saving wage."
>
> This wouldn't work because there are poorer people in other countries
> willing to do the work for less pay. And they deserve to have a shot at a
> good life as much as anyone else. It seems to me that Mike's solution is
> merely an extension of the problem, namely that having more money can solve
> whatever problems one is facing. Instead, it seems to me that one way of
> improving the lot of the poor is giving them a better opportunity for making
> a decent living. At a minimum I would think this includes a decent
> education and access to decent health care. An educated, healthy work force
> attracts work and a better standard of living.
>
>
> Mike continues:
>
> "Let's try raising the minimum wage and taxing the wealthy before attacking
> the poor."
>
> The wealthy already shoulder a great deal of the tax burden. If you don't
> like the crooks in office, why fight to give them more loot to plunder?
> Perhaps the answer is to give politicians less money to work with and expect
> them to do a better job with what they get. For example, instead of
> subsidizing areas of the U.S. economy that cannot compete in the global
> market, why not use that money to establish a universal health care system
> that will raise the standards of the labour force? If the government wants
> to support business, give them better workers so that they can better
> compete.
>
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Phil Enns
> Toronto, ON
>
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