[lit-ideas] Re: Illegal Immigration
- From: "Mike Geary" <atlas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 16:57:40 -0500
A.A. Exactly. So how do you propose to do it. Supporting the illegals is what
the farmers are doing, what you're doing. While exposing the country to who
knows what.
Exposing the country to global free market capitalism, that's what. Not me
though. While I support some aspects of global capitalism, there are many
things in it that I find alarming for human freedom and dignity and etc., etc.,
etc. But I also find it alarming that you are blaming immigrants for low
wages. It's US AMERICAN VOTERS who elect the shitheads in Congress who are to
blame. Rail against your Replublican neighbors, for God's sake. Better yet,
deport them to Niger.
A.A. Oh please. Blame capitalism. And blame God while you're at it. What
does blame capitalism mean?
We can't do anything about God unfortunately. But capitalism, we can. What
does it mean to blame capitalism? It means that there's an inherent problem in
the economic structure of the society. That structure is a legal construct and
can be changed by legislation. I don't know where the mystery is. I think
what you're objecting to is the difficulty in effecting any meaningful changes.
I agree with you that it would be difficult -- as I responded to John Mc -- I
believe this country's numero uno value is individual wealth. Maybe nothing
can ever be done. That doesn't justify coming down on the innocents. So stop
beating up on the immigrants and get busy working for the change you want to
see happen.
Mike Geary
Memphis
----- Original Message -----
From: Andy Amago
To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx ; lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2005 4:05 PM
Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Illegal Immigration
---- Original Message -----
From: Mike Geary
To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: 9/14/2005 4:38:54 PM
Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Illegal Immigration
I wrote:
>> "Raise the minimum wage. It's as simple as that. Make the minimum wage
in
>> this country a living, family, saving wage."
Phil demurs:
> This wouldn't work because there are poorer people in other countries
> willing to do the work for less pay.
But they can't. The employer can't legally pay less than the minimum
wage. Don't you get it? Marlena feels the pain of her unemployed friends and
blames the Mexicans for keeping wages down. The Mexicans aren't keeping wages
down, the farmers are. They're able to because they're mostly exempt from
minimum wage laws. Don't let them be. Raise the minimum wage to at least $10
an hour then Marlena's friends will all run to pick cucumbers ten hours a day.
Workers will compete in productivity, not wages. But of course, the farmers
won't then contribute to the congressmen's reelection campaigns.
A.A. Exactly. So how do you propose to do it. Supporting the illegals is
what the farmers are doing, what you're doing. While exposing the country to
who knows what.
> It seems to me that Mike's solution is
> merely an extension of the problem, namely that having more money can
solve
> whatever problems one is facing.
That seems a bizarre reading of what I said. I merely proposed that if
you're worried about migrant workers keeping wages down, then set a minimum
wage by law. Don't blame the workers. Hell, don't even blame the farmers --
blame capitalism. Then take ameliorative action.
A.A. Oh please. Blame capitalism. And blame God while you're at it.
What does blame capitalism mean?
> Instead, it seems to me that one way of
> improving the lot of the poor is giving them a better opportunity for
making
> a decent living. At a minimum I would think this includes a decent
> education and access to decent health care. An educated, healthy work
force
> attracts work and a better standard of living.
I certainly agree with all that. But that doesn't address the problem of
low wages as decried by Marlena and Andy. They blame the immigrants. I blame
the system and would make changes to it.
A.A. This is like what Paul did about saying the N.O. victims should just
leave. No details as to how or where to go. Just leave. Now it's just blame
capitalism.
> The wealthy already shoulder a great deal of the tax burden.
A.A. This is downright misinformed. It's not even close to reality. The
wealthy get away with tax murder. I agree here with Mike, below.
(Mike) Poor dears. According to the UN's Human Development Report released
this week: "The 500 richest individuals [in the world] have a combined income
greater than that of the poorest 416 million." And according to the Economist
Magazine, executive take home pay relative to factory floor workers pay among
various countries is: Japan 11 times greater
Germany 12 times
France 15 times
Italy 20 times
Canada 20 times
South Africa 21 times
Britain 22 times
Hong Kong 41 times
Mexico 47 times
USA 475 times.
Did you get that? In the US, executives (who do nothing, after all) make
475 times more income than the working stiffs who do the work!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You want me to cry for those slugs???? Sorry. Let them make whatever they
can, but tax their asses down to $20,000 take home pay, I say. If they want
more, let them work for it down on the floor.
> For example, instead of
> subsidizing areas of the U.S. economy that cannot compete in the global
> market, why not use that money to establish a universal health care system
> that will raise the standards of the labour force? If the government
wants
> to support business, give them better workers so that they can better
> compete.
Now you're talking.
A.A. And how would we pay for this universal health care system? As I
recall, Hillary was shown the door on this very policy.
Andy Amago
Mike Geary
Memphis
----- Original Message -----
From: "Phil Enns" <phil.enns@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2005 11:47 AM
Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Illegal Immigration
> Mike Geary wrote:
>
> "Raise the minimum wage. It's as simple as that. Make the minimum wage
in
> this country a living, family, saving wage."
>
> This wouldn't work because there are poorer people in other countries
> willing to do the work for less pay. And they deserve to have a shot at a
> good life as much as anyone else. It seems to me that Mike's solution is
> merely an extension of the problem, namely that having more money can
solve
> whatever problems one is facing. Instead, it seems to me that one way of
> improving the lot of the poor is giving them a better opportunity for
making
> a decent living. At a minimum I would think this includes a decent
> education and access to decent health care. An educated, healthy work
force
> attracts work and a better stan dard of living.
>
>
> Mike continues:
>
> "Let's try raising the minimum wage and taxing the wealthy before
attacking
> the poor."
>
> The wealthy already shoulder a great deal of the tax burden. If you don't
> like the crooks in office, why fight to give them more loot to plunder?
> Perhaps the answer is to give politicians less money to work with and
expect
> them to do a better job with what they get. For example, instead of
> subsidizing areas of the U.S. economy that cannot compete in the global
> market, why not use that money to establish a universal health care system
> that will raise the standards of the labour force? If the government
wants
> to support business, give them better workers so that they can better
> compete.
>
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Phil Enns
> Toronto, ON
>
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