[LRflex] Re: DMR question .
- From: Douglas Herr <telyt@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: leicareflex@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 18:53:15 -0500 (EST)
If David were to send me a roll of exposed film I'd be glad to have it
processed and I can scan @ 4000dpi. I suggest Kodak 100UC or 400UC, both
excellent fine-grained wide-latitude films.
Doug Herr
Birdman of Sacramento
http://www.wildlightphoto.com
-----Original Message-----
>From: "Dr. Puritz" <drpuritz@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>Sent: Feb 23, 2006 6:43 PM
>To: leicareflex@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>Subject: [LRflex] Re: DMR question .
>
>Fair enough Doug!
>
> However, and seriously, how about the rest of us who have relatively easy
>access to very accomplished and cost effective developing of our film?
>
>Elliot
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Douglas Herr" <telyt@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>To: <leicareflex@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 6:33 PM
>Subject: [LRflex] Re: DMR question .
>
>
>> Unfortunately one of the big reasons David stasrted using a digital camera
>> is the availability of film processing in Logan Lake BC.
>>
>> Doug Herr
>> Birdman of Sacramento
>> http://www.wildlightphoto.com
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>>>From: "Dr. Puritz" <drpuritz@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>Sent: Feb 23, 2006 6:28 PM
>>>To: leicareflex@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>Subject: [LRflex] Re: DMR question .
>>>
>>>David: Your examples were, as usual, spot on and quite wonderful.
>>>
>>>Might I pose a question with a somewhat different slant: How would the
>>>picture of your beautiful Granddaughter taken with the DMR compare with
>>>one
>>>taken with film...same parameters? I am not being difficult, nor is it my
>>>desire to ignite an argument filled with vitriol from those on the thread
>>>who are confirmed "digital photographers" ( sic ). I am only asking what
>>>advantage the DMR has versus film? If one can shoot film, have the film
>>>developed easily in an hour, and then have the dealer ( who knows you, and
>>>works with you to slightly "tweak" your images on the Fuji "one hour
>>>machine" ) immediately scan the images to a CD disc which then is inserted
>>>into your computer for presentation, and dissemination ( and if need be
>>>manipulation in PS )....well, what is the advantage for $6,000? All of us
>>>are comparing the images taken with digital to those that are taken with
>>>film. From the time the image is taken (on film) to the dealer to the time
>>>the image is on your computer....several hours at most with the full
>>>knowledge that you can bracket as needed, full use of all of your
>>>expensive
>>>and wonderful R lenses is easily accomplished, no worry about batteries (
>>>usually! ), etc.. I am simply asking if the advantages of using digital
>>>are
>>>quite as obvious as the companies making digital cameras would have one
>>>believe. I recognize that there are valid advantages to digital in the
>>>publishing industry where wifi and quick turnaround are important. Of
>>>course I see that professional photographer shooting weddings, and certain
>>>assignments, might have some advantage by dint of being able to recompose
>>>and shoot a flubbed or inadequate picture immediately. Of course I can
>>>see
>>>that Doug or David shooting wild-life can have the opportunity to try to
>>>shoot another image if one that you have taken is inadequate....but for
>>>most
>>>of us with a Leica R system? Obviously the question can be reframed as
>>>to
>>>the advantages of digital versus the disadvantages of film, but I still
>>>wonder.
>>>
>>>Please, once again, NO criticism of those using digital for any reason,
>>>and
>>>only a question to ( perhaps ) inspire some additional debate about film
>>>versus digital.
>>>
>>>Once again....not a post meant in any way to negate or minimize those of
>>>us
>>>who use digital and create wonderful images using their equipment. Only
>>>meant to ask again if the advantages of digital-at least for the R
>>>system-are easily perceived.
>>>
>>>Elliot ( who is still thinking about a digital set up! )
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>--- Original Message -----
>>>From: "David Young" <telyt@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>To: <leicareflex@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 4:06 PM
>>>Subject: [LRflex] Re: DMR question .
>>>
>>>
>>>> Ted Grant wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>A friend of mine is shooting a dog sled racing event I think in
>>>>>Wisconsin
>>>>>or
>>>>>in Alaska. ;-) OK OK snow looks like snow wherever it is, but it looks
>>>>>cold
>>>>>as all get out.
>>>>>
>>>>>He being a long time Leica R user I knew he had a DMR for his R8, so I
>>>>>assumed he'd be shooting with it. When he sent me several e-posts of
>>>>>pictures I was more than impressed with the quality on the screen.
>>>>>
>>>>>Even the brilliant snow had detail in the sunlit frames. I was so
>>>>>impressed
>>>>>I sent a congratulation on the great shots with the DMR.
>>>>>
>>>>>Here's his response a few minutes ago. ;-)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Actually it's the Canon 20D with the 100-400 4.5-5.6 L series with
>>>>>>>>image
>>>>>>>>stabilization.Temperature was 4 degrees with a wind chill of minus 40
>>>>>>>>degrees. First battery lasted about three hours and about 100
>>>>>>>>pictures.
>>>>>>>>Spare battery carried next to my body to keep warm. Photographer was
>>>>>>>>wearing Columbia boots rated to minus 45 degrees, snowmobile pant
>>>>>>>>bib,
>>>>>>>>NorthFace Fleece covered with Columbia Omni-Tech Jacket Shell, and a
>>>>>>>>rabbit furred bomber musher hat. Quite warm. Gloves weren't up to it
>>>>>>>>though, I'll have to upgrade. With the right set up, you can stay
>>>>>>>>outside for hours. Bloody Mary slush does help. You know it's cold
>>>>>>>>when
>>>>>>>>the bloody marys begin to freeze.<<<<<
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Not a DMR in sight! :-(
>>>>>
>>>>>So I've sent him a note.... "OK where's the DMR frames you being a long
>>>>>time
>>>>>Leica user?"
>>>>>
>>>>>When I get a response I'll send it along. In defence of the 20D there
>>>>>wasn't
>>>>>any question when I saw the full image on a 21" screen I was looking at
>>>>>some
>>>>>very detailed DMR images. Beards with individual hairs as sharp as all
>>>>>get
>>>>>out, dogs and fur similar.
>>>>>
>>>>>I am hoping he has his DMR just to see how much difference in "Musher
>>>>>beard's and dog's fur" there is, if any?
>>>>>
>>>>>ted
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hi Ted! (and Aram, too!)
>>>>
>>>> An interesting post. The Canon 20D is capable of some amazing results,
>>>> there is no doubt.
>>>>
>>>> However, Aram asked for large file comparisons between the 20D and the
>>>> DM-R.
>>>>
>>>> I have attempted to respond to his request at
>>>>
>>>> http://www3.telus.net/~telyt/comparisons.htm
>>>>
>>>> which you (and others) might also find interesting.
>>>>
>>>> This is not an apples to apples test, as that could only be done by
>>>> shooting a model, on a tripod, with both cameras, to get truly
>>>> comparable shots.
>>>>
>>>> However, I have rummaged through my Canon shots, trying to find
>>>> something close to the shot of my granddaughter, offered the other day.
>>>>
>>>> Both shots at ISO 400. Both 'developed' in SilkyPix with the same
>>>> parameters. Both converted to .jpg's at 99% quality (5 & 7 mb files) as
>>>> my ISP didn't seem to care for the .tif files I was going to use (at 24
>>>> and 29mb!). Neither had any additional processing (sharpening, noise
>>>> reduction etc.).
>>>>
>>>> There is no doubt, that both are technically OK shots... and in normal
>>>> prints it may be difficult to tell the difference... but I believe the
>>>> differences are obvious to those who look.
>>>>
>>>> Are those differences worth the extra cost. Probably not, for most of
>>>> us. But, if you, like me, are a bit persnikity , then perhaps, yes. Or,
>>>> if, like me, you have a large investment in Leica glass and don't wish
>>>> to start over again with another system.
>>>>
>>>> Advantages of the 20D...
>>>>
>>>> * Good results.
>>>> * Low (relatively) cost.
>>>> * Lightweight & compact.
>>>>
>>>> Drawbacks of the 20D with Leica lenses.
>>>>
>>>> * No auto aperture.
>>>> * No spot metering (now cured with the new 30D)
>>>> * Not the greatest viewfinder.
>>>> * Poor balance with long lenses.
>>>>
>>>> Advantages of the DM-R
>>>>
>>>> * Very good results,
>>>> * Auto aperture (stop down metering at f8 makes it a pain to see the
>>>> finder!)
>>>> * Spot metering that works incredibly well.
>>>> * Good balance with long lenses.
>>>>
>>>> Drawbacks to the DM-R
>>>>
>>>> * Breathtaking price. (although not that much more than the 5D if one is
>>>> thinking of stepping up from the 20D - as I was.)
>>>> * Larger and heavier - but no more so that top of the line Canon digis.
>>>> * AWB not as accurate in tricky situations (such as indoors with deep
>>>> coloured walls and window light).
>>>> * Slow (3 second) warm up is a pain the patoot when going for a quick
>>>> grab shot.
>>>> * Poor battery life... about 150 to 200 shots or 3 hrs operation. 2 hr.
>>>> recharge time. Good but large charger.
>>>>
>>>> Other Observations:
>>>>
>>>> [1] I find the scribed lines on the viewfinder indicating the sensor
>>>> area to be much like a Leica M... and, frankly, I like being able to see
>>>> what's just outside the frame. Makes it easier to compose.
>>>>
>>>> [2] I find the results from the DM-R to show finer detail in the final
>>>> photos. This I attribute to the lack of an anti-aliasing filter which
>>>> does reduce Moire patterns in the odd shot, but also lowers resolution.
>>>> Interestingly, every other dSLR has one... but no MF digi back does!
>>>>
>>>> [3] Curiously, I found the 90 Summicron to be not a nice lens to use on
>>>> the 20D. The combination became front heavy and the FOV alteration to
>>>> 144 mm made it a bit "long" for "standard" lens use... something I've
>>>> done for years. With the DM-R, the FOV changes to that of 123mm...
>>>> which seems to very 'comfortable' to my mind. It also balances very
>>>> well on the R8/DM-R combo.
>>>>
>>>> [4] In sub zero temperatures, I find the 20D difficult to use with
>>>> gloves on. The DM-R has two new release buttons... one on the front for
>>>> horizontal shots and one near the base, for verticals. Both are very
>>>> easy to use with gloves or even mittens!
>>>>
>>>> Anyway, I'd appreciate comments on these shots. Other viewpoints are
>>>> always illuminating!
>>>>
>>>> Oh... yes... these pages are best viewed with 1024x768 pixels or more.
>>>> The large files (for high speed users only) will still take a lot of
>>>> scrolling around!
>>>>
>>>> OK... Nomex suit is on... Kevlar vest is in place!
>>>>
>>>> Cheers!
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> David Young,
>>>> Logan Lake, BC
>>>> CANADA.
>>>>
>>>> Personal Web-site at: http://www3.telus.net/~telyt
>>>> Leica Reflex Forum web-page: http://www3.telus.net/~telyt/lrflex.htm
>>>>
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