[geocentrism] meditations on Scripture
- From: allendaves@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
- To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 08:24:58 -0800 (PST)
I''m not the one who is complicating things it is so ironic that you see it
that way... .......any defintion used to create the axis you kee refering to
logicaly demands a axis for every single and infinate ,"infinity" you can
imagine. at any "pratical scale" you choose imhotep or not :-).....why?
....because what defines one just as equaly defines all the others.....The
error is that you do not see that your application and defintion and use
of rotation and its axis applies equaly to every infinity you can imagine. you
have no way of claiming an objective separtaion between your axis and infinate
axis. The key point is that cannot just arbitraily pick one axis out of all
your posible infinities and call it an objective anylisis of anything....cherey
picking your observations and results and then calling everything else "error"
is simply silly!....If you cannot separate out the motions and still observe
the motion then it does not
exist......period firiment or no firmiment ..as the force examples all show
there is and can only be a logical claim to a prevention of a rotation, not a
rotaion due to any demonstratable force. it always comes down to what you
imagine could be vs what you can actualy demonstrate.........
--- On Fri, 1/9/09, Allen Daves <allendaves@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
From: Allen Daves <allendaves@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [geocentrism] Re: meditations on Scripture
To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: Friday, January 9, 2009, 8:21 AM
I''m not the one who is complicating things it is so ironic that you see it
that way... .......any defintion used to create the axis you kee refering to
logicaly demands a axis for every single and infinate ,"infinity" you can
imagine...why? because wwhat defines one just as equaly defines all the
others.....The error is that you do not see that your application and defintion
and use of rotation and its axis applies equaly to every infinity you can
imagine. you have no way of claiming an objective separtaion between your axis
and infinate axis. The key point is that cannot just arbitraily pick one axis
out of all your posible infinities and call it an objective anylisis of
anything....cherey picking your observations and results and then calling
everything else "error" is simply silly!....If you cannot separate out the
motions and still observe the motion then it does not exist......period
firiment or no firmiment ..as the force examples all show
there is and can only be a logical claim to a prevention of a rotation, not a
rotaion due to any demonstratable force. it always comes down to what you
imagine could be vs what you can actualy demonstrate.........
--- On Thu, 1/8/09, philip madsen <pma15027@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
From: philip madsen <pma15027@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [geocentrism] Re: meditations on Scripture
To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: Thursday, January 8, 2009, 9:36 PM
This is similar to the Moon going around "set in the firmament" (i.e., rotation
of the firmament, not the Moon), which you did not seem to side with when Allen
was championing that (Biblical) position. Neville
This deserves a simple fast response. I never have rejected this biblical fact
as regards the firmament. Allen may have brought it up amongst his dialogue,
but I was concentrating on his error concerning rotation and orbiting being two
separate motions which he denies. To avoid the complication of an aether with
imbedded moon, I tried to keep the discussion to mechanical models on earth,
where an orbiting physical body around a centre point, has to make one
rotation every orbit if it is to present the same face to the centre. That
basic physical fact Allen denies.
In any case the firmament or aether allows for individual rotation of the
bodies imbedded within it. No complications please Allen.
Philip.
----- Original Message -----
From: Neville Jones
To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Friday, January 09, 2009 9:37 AM
Subject: [geocentrism] Re: meditations on Scripture
Philip,
I thought you would encourage someone who gets a distinct feeling that God is
listening to him when he prays, rather than trying to explain it away with
endorphins? This is similar to the Moon going around "set in the firmament"
(i.e., rotation of the firmament, not the Moon), which you did not seem to side
with when Allen was championing that (Biblical) position.
You do surprise me sometimes.
Neville
www.realityreviewed.com
-----Original Message-----
From: pma15027@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 09:07:39 +1000
Yes I can agree in part with what you said Peter. with additions shown in
brown. Philip.
----- Original Message -----
From: PETER CHARLTON
To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Friday, January 09, 2009 3:13 AM
Subject: [geocentrism] Re: meditations on Scripture
Dont forget that there are other scriptures that give an indication as well, I
cannot remember where they are but there is one that says to not repetitivlt
repeat a prayer as the nations do, Buddist mantras come to mind. I could find
such Scripture. But that supports my contention that Bible alone is
insufficient.. Such contradictions appear many times.
There is also the parable Jesus gave of the man who wanted a loaf of bread from
a man who was in bed and didnt want to get up, in the end the man did get up
just so he could get some peace.
I find when I pray the feeling of Gods Spirit in me, thats when I feel he must
be listening. As comforting as that feels, feelings are not a proof of the
indwelling of the Spirit of God, any more than the indwelling of The evil one.,
who can appear as an angel of light. If feeling good was the criteria, then
all must get to Heaven. In the face of the thousands of martyrs against the
gods of imperial Rome, such a philosophy makes a mockery of God's justice.
Physiologically, we know that emotion triggers internal drug release.....
endorphins are naturally produced by a wide range of activities like
meditation, deep breathing, ribald laughter, eating spicy food, or receiving
acupuncture treatments or chiropractic adjustments. Fewer still know that
endorphins are actually good for health, and can play a role in helping drug
and alcohol abusers overcome their addiction.
Because they are naturally produced by the body, endorphins are possibly the
best (and most legal way) to achieve a natural high. Chemically speaking,
endorphins are polypeptides, which able to bind to the neuro-receptors in the
brain to give relief from pain. They are one reason why soldiers wounded in
battle can continue to fight or have the strength to save someone else; it also
accounts for the so called runner's high, or why some people are drawn to
dangerous activities like car racing, sky diving and bungee jumping.
I attach an interesting info sheet from files about endorphins for the
interested..Philip.
Pete Charlton
----- Original Message -----
From: philip madsen
To: geocentrism list
Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 6:06 AM
Subject: [geocentrism] meditations on Scripture
The Lords Prayer .
One of the things I worry about concerns the would be christians of this world,
and in particular those whom I know personally, who claim Scripture alone can
save.
I know they insist that this means calling on the name of Jesus, and the need
to believe in Him and all that he taught. I do not argue at all against that.
My concern is that this is not enough. It ignores the need of a set discipline.
So long as any person can mould his life by self discipline accorting to his
own wits as interpreted by scripture, he can never be certain that he is acting
under the guidance of the Paraclete. No matter how much he FEELS this to be
true. There are much too many contradictions among the millions who do this.
And one thing is certain. God does not contradict Himself, but is unchanged and
unchangeable forever.
I used the words "set discipline" . Above all that God teaches in
scripture, is the need of obedience. A set rule or a set of rules that are
without any error. Can that ever happen among men without an authoritarian
Church? The history of Christianity in all its variety seems to say No! Jesus
demands that all of His flock, (that means sheep) shall be under one
shepherd.. Now the Shepherd controls his sheep. He disciplines them. The Bible
cannot do that, when it is left to me or you to chose our own discipline or
punishment.
The Bible, as marvellous as it is, it is this very marvelousness that makes it
unable to be the shepherd.. I have already shown that there is no way of
discerning the Spirit in the words of the book, with any certainty for any
person, based upon his personal feelings. The simple experience of the
contradictions such creates is ample evidence of that. So much is said, but
yet so much is left unsaid, and left to the imagination. A Catholic will see it
as a Catholic, a protestant as a Protestant, a born again believer as the way
his favourite preacher tells it, or the book he wrote. The Holy Spirit has very
little chance of getting in there, save a direct miraculous interference from
God. And God does not do that without ample real supernatural evidence.. It is
not His way to be indistinguishable from the devil.
It was the Lords prayer which prompted this email. I found the DR Mathew
version, which is not worded like the standard prayer Christians recite, from
the other gospels, but it suffices for my case. This is the only prayer the
Bible discipline demands. It figures in almost every ritual of the orthodox
Universal Church of Jesus Christ, as well as many sects. Yet how many who are
Bible only believers repeat this prayer? Jesus said, 9 Thus therefore shall you
pray: He commands it. A discipline.. He speaks against friendly conversations,
as being prayers. In the agony of the Garden He says Pray often, less the Devil
(temptation) get in .
Thus we have a case for repetition as being a means of keeping you focussed on
God, and the Devil out. Can we do any better than repeating the only prayer He
commended? I think there is a better way, but who can stand it. We could recite
Scripture. The Psalms have historically kept many monks and priests on their
knees for hours.. Not my cup of tea. Not for most modernists used as we are to
the easy life. But simple folk were given, or they took, the Rosary, straight
from Scripture, easily remembered, no reading ability required.. The Lords
prayer, and the Angelic salutation, repeated often, whilst meditating on the
complete Scriptual life of Jesus.
I can say no more than leave the words from Mathew, underlining the key words
which prompted this message, and a short conclusion following.
7 And when you are praying, speak not much, as the heathens. For they think
that in their much speaking they may be heard. 8 Be not you therefore like to
them for your Father knoweth what is needful for you, before you ask him.
9 Thus therefore shall you pray:
Our Father who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name. 10 Thy kingdom come. Thy
will be done on earth as it is in heaven. 11 Give us this day our
supersubstantial bread. 12 And forgive us our debts, as we also forgive our
debtors. 13 And lead us not into temptation. But deliver us from evil. Amen.
14 For if you will forgive men their offences, your heavenly Father will
forgive you also your offences. 15 But if you will not forgive men, neither
will your Father forgive you your offences.
Here we have Jesus actually telling you how to be saved. You have to ask the
Father "forgive us our debts" . It seems that people take a dangerous option,
presuming on Gods Mercy, that they are automatically saved by prescribing to
their own particular interpretation of the words of God. A very dangerous
option indeed.
I prefer submission! Prostrate on the ground. Forgive me Oh Lord, I am a
misarable sinner!. If I am wrong, it is because I am ignorant, and if I am
right, it is not because I am clever, but because of your grace.
Philip.
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