[geocentrism] Re: meditations on Scripture

  • From: "PETER CHARLTON" <peter.nambo@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: <geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 17:13:48 -0000

Dont forget that there are other scriptures that give an indication as well, I 
cannot remember where they are but there is one that says to not repetitivlt 
repeat a prayer as the nations do, Buddist mantras come to mind.

There is also the parable Jesus gave of the man who wanted a loaf of bread from 
a man who was in bed and didnt want to get up, in the end the man did get up 
just so he could get some peace.

I find when I pray the feeling of Gods Spirit in me, thats when I feel he msut 
be listening.

Pete Charlton 
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: philip madsen 
  To: geocentrism list 
  Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 6:06 AM
  Subject: [geocentrism] meditations on Scripture

  The Lords Prayer . 

  One of the things I worry about concerns the would be christians of this 
world, and in particular those whom I  know personally, who claim Scripture 
alone can save. 

  I know they insist that this means calling on the name of Jesus, and the need 
to believe in Him and all that he taught.  I do not argue at all against that. 

  My concern is that this is not enough. It ignores the need of a set 
discipline. So long as any person can mould his life by self discipline 
accorting to his own wits as interpreted by scripture, he can never be certain 
that he is acting under the guidance of the Paraclete. No matter how much he 
FEELS this to be true. There are much too many contradictions among the 
millions who do this. And one thing is certain. God does not contradict 
Himself, but is unchanged and unchangeable forever. 

  I used the words "set discipline"  .  Above all that God teaches in 
scripture, is the need of obedience. A set rule or a set of rules that are 
without any error. Can that ever happen among men without an authoritarian 
Church? The history of Christianity in all its variety seems to say No!  Jesus 
demands that all of His flock, (that means sheep) shall be under one shepherd.. 
 Now the Shepherd controls his sheep. He disciplines them. The Bible cannot do 
that, when it is left to me or you to chose our own discipline or punishment. 

  The Bible, as marvellous as it is, it is this very marvelousness that makes 
it unable to be the shepherd.. I have already shown that there is no way of 
discerning the Spirit in the words of the book, with any certainty for any 
person, based upon his personal feelings. The simple experience of the 
contradictions such creates is ample evidence of that.  So much is said, but 
yet so much is left unsaid, and left to the imagination. A Catholic will see it 
as a Catholic, a protestant as a Protestant, a born again believer as the way 
his favourite preacher tells it, or the book he wrote. The Holy Spirit has very 
little chance of getting in there, save a direct miraculous interference from 
God. And God does not do that without ample real supernatural evidence.. It is 
not His way to be indistinguishable from the devil. 

  It was the Lords prayer which prompted this email.  I found the DR Mathew 
version, which is not worded like the standard prayer Christians  recite, from 
the other gospels, but it suffices for my case. This is the only prayer the 
Bible discipline demands. It figures in almost every ritual of the orthodox 
Universal Church of Jesus Christ, as well as many sects. Yet how many who are 
Bible only believers repeat this prayer? Jesus said, 9 Thus therefore shall you 
pray: He commands it. A discipline..  He speaks against friendly conversations, 
as being prayers. In the agony of the Garden He says Pray often, less the Devil 
(temptation) get in . 

  Thus we have a case for repetition as being a means of keeping you focussed 
on God, and the Devil out. Can we do any better than repeating the only prayer 
He commended? I think there is a better way, but who can stand it. We could 
recite Scripture. The Psalms have historically kept many monks and priests on 
their knees for hours.. Not my cup of tea. Not for most modernists used as we 
are to the easy life.  But simple folk were given, or they took, the Rosary, 
straight from Scripture, easily remembered, no reading ability required.. The 
Lords prayer, and the Angelic salutation, repeated often, whilst meditating on 
the complete Scriptual life of Jesus. 

  I can say no more than leave the words from Mathew, underlining the key words 
which prompted this message, and a short conclusion following.     
  7 And when you are praying, speak not much, as the heathens. For they think 
that in their much speaking they may be heard. 8 Be not you therefore like to 
them for your Father knoweth what is needful for you, before you ask him. 

  9 Thus therefore shall you pray: 

  Our Father who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name. 10 Thy kingdom come. Thy 
will be done on earth as it is in heaven. 11 Give us this day our 
supersubstantial bread. 12 And forgive us our debts, as we also forgive our 
debtors. 13 And lead us not into temptation. But deliver us from evil. Amen. 

  14 For if you will forgive men their offences, your heavenly Father will 
forgive you also your offences. 15 But if you will not forgive men, neither 
will your Father forgive you your offences. 

  Here we have Jesus actually telling you how to be saved. You have to ask the 
Father "forgive us our debts" .   It seems that people take a dangerous option, 
presuming on Gods Mercy, that they are automatically saved by prescribing to 
their own particular interpretation of the words of God. A very dangerous 
option indeed. 

  I prefer submission!  Prostrate on the ground. Forgive me Oh Lord, I am a 
misarable sinner!. If I am wrong, it is because I am ignorant, and if I am 
right, it is not because I am clever, but because of your grace. 


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