Rob, no particular point to pick on here, as most of your approach is almost identical to my own. However, Do you really think a self acting reasoning computer would need to find a label indicating an intelligent designer? pure logic would insist that it know that because of its nature and composition that it must have been made by design. However I do not make this assumption as regards the universe. There is so much accidental imperfection within the design. The universe in its action is too much like a laboratory series of experiments, many of which including Man fail. As I said before the watch or the PC is no valid argument for the existence of a God. It is a matter of revelation, (that is the label we have been given, to those truly curious enough to seek it, and see it,) and it is then a matter of faith, not science. The real problem for science is the argument of the need for a first cause. I do not accept that there is a need for a first cause. It may not be so cut and dried..... The inferior intellect, the inferior logic stumbles and insists there has to be a first cause. At the risk of sounding arrogant, I say that postulation does not compute..... Neville looks like you will need to change the list name to something else... Genesis perhaps? Philip.