[geocentrism] Re: Saul of Tarsus
- From: Allen Daves <allendaves@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2005 13:42:27 -0700 (PDT)
You make a lot of assertions based on your Reasoning, Howvever, you provide no
scripture to corelate anything you have asserted and everytime you have I have
shown you from Scripture your error .
1.I have estabilshed from scripture and context with srciptural corelation that
seed is refering to the One who was prophisised......It is you who have yet to
establish that the promised seed refers to anyone other than Jesus..You assert
with your reaoing but you cant corelate anyof it with scripture it is therfore
just your imagination and refusal to accept plain scripture.
2.The Yeshuwa? is not the seed of YeHVaH Elohiym he IS God nor can you show
that he is from scripture.
3. The "you" is the same persons Identified by Moses those are ANYONE see Deut
ref who would not listen.
4 The daily sacrifice was taken away before Jesus even came!
5. You have yet to establish any of your arguments from Scripture or address
the fact that Jesus did not teach the Old law or the fact that it is imposible
to keep if even if you want you.You refusse to accept plain corelated staments
by L&P with Jesus and Johns Revelation. You reason entirly external of
scripture based on your circular logic..
6. Your use of scriptue is external of context corelation and just outright
blindness.. it is you who are being decived not because I say so but Scripture,
the Law, Prophets, Jesus Plainly tell you otherwise but you refuse to listen..
Just like they did then.
7.God's People are blessed but it is based on Obediance not Biology.
8. Finaly........ Paul did NOT start the Catholic Church.. Like all your
assertions they are unlearned and twisted of scripture. Saul is not the enemy
of Christ your doctrine is.
"Dr. Neville Jones" <ntj005@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Allen put in four postings yesterday, one of which does require a response:
It has taken a little time to identify the source of your confusion and
misunderstanding, but I hope to now be able to point it out to you.
First of all, we will briefly go through the Scriptures you provided to support
your position.
(A) Genisis 22:17. "in blessing I will bless you, and in multiplying I will
multiply your descendants as the stars of the heaven and as the sand which is
on the seashore; and your descendants shall possess the gate of their enemies.
18. "In your seed all the nations of the earth shall be blessed, because you
have obeyed My voice.'
Seed = descendants (so far, you have not proved otherwise).
'Genesis 26:4. "And I will make your descendants multiply as the stars of
heaven; I will give to your descendants all these lands; and in your seed all
the nations of the earth shall be blessed;
Seed = descendants (so far, you have not proved otherwise).
Genesis 28:14. "Also your descendants shall be as the dust of the earth; you
shall spread abroad to the west and the east, to the north and the south; and
in you and in your seed all the families of the earth shall be blessed.
Seed = descendants (so far, you have not proved otherwise).
Psalms 72: 17. His name shall endure for ever: his name shall be continued as
long as the sun: and men shall be blessed in him: all nations shall call him
blessed
No tie proven here at all, since both are true, they are not mutually exclusive.
Psalms 32: 1. Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven, whose sin is
covered. Jeremiah 31:33. But this shall be the covenant that I will make
34??..I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more
Yes, His people, the Israelites, the seed of Abraham, through Isaac, through
Yaacob.
Psalms 33:12. Blessed is the nation whose God is the Lord; and the people whom
he hath chosen for his own inheritance
Yes, His people, the Israelites, the seed of Abraham, through Isaac, through
Yaacob.
??......Now Jesus. ?. Mat 21:43 The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and
given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof
Once again you twist and contort Holy Scripture to promote your Sauline
doctrine that the ?Jews have had their day.? Who is the ?you? here? Let?s see,
from just after you cut this Scripture off:
The chief priests and the Pharisees heard his parables and understood that he
was speaking in regard to them. (Mt. 21:45)
The Pharisees! And what is Saul of Tarsus? Let?s see ? he IS a Pharisee. Not
?was,? ?is.?
John 10:9. I am the door: ? John14:6. Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the
truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. ??.
Agreed, because he paid the price for the sin of YeHVaH?s chosen people ? the
seed of Abraham ? the physical Israelites. The price that they could never pay,
even if they turned the entire Temple Mount awash with sacrificial blood.
Mat 26:28. For this is my blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for
the remission of sins.
Agreed, see above..
Mat 3:9. And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father:
for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto
Abraham.
And? He certainly does not deny that Abraham is their father.
This is not a Claim the Scripture uses "SEED" not seeds THROUGH WHICH THE
NATIONS WERE TO BE BLEESED This was the Purpose of Jesus!?.and it is through
that SEED that Abrams descendents would Multiply as the Stars. ?
This is the essence of your entire argument. Your error will be shown you below.
Yes the sacrifice has been made, which means that the daily sacrifice or
atonement was done away with at the instant of Yeshuwa?s death (Daniel 12:11).
Back up to Ch 6 to see what is happening previous to this for a Time index and
for the CONTEXT
Next bit removed, because it is irrelevant.
?
Mathew 24: 21. "For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been
since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be.15.
"Therefore when you see the `abomination of desolation,' spoken of by Daniel
the prophet, standing in the holy place'' (whoever reads, let him understand),
????34. "Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away
till all these things are fulfilled??..
It did not pass away, because all those things were fulfilled, INCLUDING THE
SETTING UP AND IDENTIFICATION OF ?THE END,? THE ANTI-MESSIAH, SAUL OF TARSUS.
You don?t know anything about the Prophesies concerning the purpose, mission or
timing of the Christ or what he was to do? This would take more than just a few
SoundBits, especially since I have shared a lot with you even before this
posting and you can?t grasp or accept Jesus when he makes plain statements
about "This Generation" , "NOW IS" and "New Covenant". As such, you are
asserting that Paul was teaching false doctrine,.. You don?t even know the
doctrine of Jesus or the L&P was!
You misuse and misquote Scriptures, and take them out of context to fit in with
your ?understanding,? if that is what it can be called. I have asked you many
times to supply DIRECT Scriptural quotes to justify what you have claimed, but
you never do. You put in large, multi-coloured postings, which look impressive
on the outside, but are nothing more than empty arguments and baseless
conclusions, to maintain a position that is in harmony with your hero, Saul,
and most definitely not in harmony with YeHVaH and His only begotton son,
Yeshuwa? HaMeshiyach.
The reason that you do not understand that YeHVaH?s chosen people are and
always will be the Israelites, the seed of Abraham from Sarah, is because you
are steeped in Sauline lies, distortion and pagan teachings.
Yeshuwa? is not the seed of Abraham. He is the seed of YeHVaH Elohiym, hallowed
be His name. Your whole position is therefore built on sand.
The seed of Abraham are the Israelites, the physical descendants of Yaacob. I
publicly bless the Israelites and I publicly bless the Jews. They ARE Our
Father?s people and no obnoxious liar, like Saul, is ever going to change that,
no matter how many Catholic churches he founds.
Neville.
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