Re: [foxboro] network storm

  • From: "Boulay, Russ" <russ.boulay@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: <foxboro@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2009 09:20:36 -0500

I was only answering the question posed.
That separation is not currently supported by Invensys as it just hasn't
gone thru the vigorous testing to bless the installation.

Some sites have deployed the Vlan separation anyway...seems to be
working without issue. I can't suggest or endorse until it is IPS
blessed.

I have no timeframe.

-----Original Message-----
From: foxboro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:foxboro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Jones
Sent: Monday, February 09, 2009 08:29 AM
To: foxboro@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [foxboro] network storm

Russ,

Does this mean you are suggesting that we should place the ZCP on VLan2
with
the IOC/FCM connection on Vlan3? 

Jones 

-----Original Message-----
From: foxboro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:foxboro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On
Behalf Of Boulay, Russ
Sent: Monday, February 09, 2009 5:53 AM
To: foxboro@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [foxboro] network storm

The ZCP270 has 4 connections to the Mesh.
2 Mesh 2 IOC (Fieldbus)
The ZCP270 mesh connections attached to Vlan2
The ZCP270 IOC connections attached to Vlan3 where the FCM's also
participate.
Because the Switch itself is part of the Mesh it can be System
Monitored.
Switch trap settings will report all port health.
FCM health is only captured by Fieldbus failure or switch port loss of
link.

Separate switches off the Mesh used in this same fashion..cannot be
monitored, thus except for fieldbus error reporting thru the ZCP, all
everything else is blind.


-----Original Message-----
From: foxboro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:foxboro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of cleddon@xxxxxxx
Sent: Monday, February 09, 2009 07:45 AM
To: foxboro@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [foxboro] network storm

I guess I am a little confused, isn't a VLAN the same as a separate
switch?? I thought the function of the VLAN was to increase the number
of broadcast domains and thus reduce the broadcast load (both pure and
multicast) on the devices separated by the VLAN, which in the event of a
broadcast storm, what ever was in the VLAN would never see that specific
broadcast traffic.? That said, I am not sure why the SMDH can see FCM's
on a VLAN if it can't see them on isolated switches.? Also, I don't
know, and I am not sure if there is enough information is available to
tell us if there are important system wide broadcasts that all devices
need to be aware of (are we over isolating ourselves).? The Foxdoc's are
pretty definitive about where the IA system must be located in a VLAN
solution and I don't remember seeing docs allowing?segmentation at the
VLAN level.?? 
I guess I need to find out what all is in these FCM VLANs and how can it
see or be seen by the ZCP that references its I/O.? I am also
assuming?the ZCP needs to be visible by the rest of the system at all
times which would not allow it to be on a VLAN.? 

I think we need some quality time with the father of the Mesh (Kevin
Burak) to enlighten all of us peasants to the wonders of the Mesh.


Chuck Leddon
Office Email X2CDLEDD@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
(770)-497-8247 Home
(404)506-6051 Office
(404)535-0147 Cell
LINC ID: 15*1843


-----Original Message-----
From: Hicks, Gaylon F <gfhicks@xxxxxxx>
To: foxboro@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Mon, 9 Feb 2009 1:02 am
Subject: Re: [foxboro] network storm



Let me muddy the water a little (more).  VLANs are supported by Foxboro,
and are part of the MESH configurator tool, and a separate network using
separate switch hardware for the ZCP fieldbus is an officially supported
architecture.  

What is not an explicitly approved architecture is using VLANs to
segment the ZCP field bus(es) from the control network, although
functionally it is the same as the separate switch architecture.  And by
"explicitely approved" I mean it isn't a documented and tested
configuration by Foxboro, although it is pretty obvious that it will,
and does, work fine.  The problem with the separate switches on the ZCP
fieldbus is that you can't monitor those switches and ports in SMDH,
where the VLAN solution does let you monitor those ports. 

The same goes for the multicast rate limiting policies.  Although it
works fine, it doesn't (or didn't) fall under the umbrella of officially
tested configurations.

Russ? - Would you or any of the other Foxboro folks care to weigh in on
this?  If I have mis-stated any of this, please do.

For more light reading on the subject, you can take a look at these
documents - 

B0700AX-H - The MESH Control Network System Planning and Sizing 
B0700AZ-K - The MESH Control Network Architecture Guide
B0700CA-H - The MESH Control Network Operation, and Switch Installation
and Configuration Guide

Thanks,
Gaylon Hicks
TVA - Browns Ferry


-----Original Message-----
From: foxboro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:foxboro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Jeremy Milum
Sent: Saturday, February 07, 2009 4:03 PM
To: foxboro@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [foxboro] network storm

On Sat, Feb 7, 2009 at 12:01 PM, Boulay, Russ
<russ.boulay@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> ** I'll have to give kudo's to Gaylon, as we reviewed his Mesh Network
a few weeks back.
> It was the cleanest running Mesh system that I have reviewed in the
last few years.
> Vlans for fieldbus, some broadcast limiting, Mesh was running at peak
performance.

many of the suggestions that Gaylan mentions are not supporte
d by
foxboro, yet he has the best
network? that's a bit troubling.

do you perhaps have some recommendations you could give us for setting
up our mesh networks?
 
 
 
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Systems (formerly The Foxboro Company). Use the info you obtain here at
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entity to whom they are addressed. Please do not copy it or use it for any 
purposes, or disclose its contents to any other person. Further, this e-mail 
and any associated files may be confidential and further may be legally 
privileged. This email is from the Invensys Process Systems business unit of 
Invensys plc which is a company registered in England and Wales with its 
registered office at Portland House, Bressenden Place, London, SW1E 5BF 
(Registered number 166023).  For a list of European legal entities within the 
Invensys Process Systems business group, please click here 
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If you have received this e-mail in error, you are on notice of its status. 
Please notify us immediately by reply e-mail and then delete this message from 
your system. Thank you for your co-operation. You may contact our Helpdesk on 
+44 (0)20 7821 3859 / 2105 or email inet.hqhelpdesk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx This e-mail 
and any attachments thereto may be subject to the terms of any agreements 
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This mailing list is neither sponsored nor endorsed by Invensys Process
Systems (formerly The Foxboro Company). Use the info you obtain here at
your own risks. Read http://www.thecassandraproject.org/disclaimer.html
 
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