[cryptome] Re: The Nuclear Chain Reaction Gossip Column. Was: : US/Lyndon Baines Johnstone supplied Iran's Nuclear Reactor in 1967

  • From: Andrew Hornback <achornback@xxxxxxxxx>
  • To: cryptome@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2015 12:28:22 -0500

On Tue, Feb 24, 2015 at 10:44 AM, doug <douglasrankine2001@xxxxxxxxxxx>

>  Hi Andrew,
> Tx for the urls...
> You mean you found that secret information on Wikipedia...!!! I wonder why
> they haven't classified it, or prosecuted Wikipedia.  Terrible all this
> open source stuff...They should close the internet down and only make it
> available to people they trust :-)

There was a time when that was what happened... the era before Steve Case,
as I call it.  Back when the Internet was a veritable Utopia.  Now, any
simpleton with a few quid and a wireless device can spout off about this
and that or nothing at all for the masses to consume.  At some point in the
future, sociologists are going to prove me right that Steve Case was the
anti-Christ, that the commercialization of the Internet was a bad thing and
that the birth of America On-Line and the point in time at which people
stopped getting dressed up in jackets and ties (or dresses for the ladies)
to go watch a professional baseball game were the points at which human
civilization took horrific downturns.

> That'll sort out the containing secrets problem...No more whistleblowers
> then... :-) .  Mind you, I suppose it is a bit difficult to keep a
> nuclear explosion, or a nuclear power reactor secret for long.  Victims
> have families and relatives after all... :-) . And governments have such
> sensitive remote sensing devices these days...and spies are all over the
> place.

The first thing that comes to mind are the secrets surrounding the Bikini
Atoll test detonations...

> Do you think that the Chinese were clever enough to develop nuclear power
> and bombs on their own?

Oh, that's not a question that I'm going to give you a straight answer to.
However, I do feel that any civilization that pours enough time, education
and resources into something, they'll eventually figure it out.

> The reason I ask is because I was listening to a very clever, high up
> American citizen on the radio the other day, one of those academics

Okay, I see what the problem is, but continue...

> who is a member of one of those think tanks

And another problem...

> wot study China and he was comparing how much better America was in so
> many ways than China and that was why America would always beat China,
> because American culture and their way of thinking is much more diverse and
> open.  They aren't so inventive as the Americans.

I would disagree there.  Inventiveness is not a societal trait as much as
it is a human trait.  Need a job done?  Figure out how to do it.  That's
called Engineering and it isn't specific to one society, race, ethnicity,

There's been some discussion as to which races are more inclined to better
handling technical subjects - personally, I think that's a 55 gallon drum
of worms that doesn't necessarily need to be opened since it wouldn't prove
useful in the eventuality.

> The Chinese people would find the US way of life much more attractive
> because America has got stuff like Hollywood which helps make people think
> better.

If Hollywood helps you think better why aren't graduate students in STEM
fields watching 12+ hours a day worth of Mork and Mindy reruns or Ishtar or
Lucas' films?  Oh, wait... they are.

Having lived close to a couple of Chinatowns here in America, the one thing
that they focus on to help them think better is hour after hour of
education.  Public school, after school tutoring, etc, etc.

> He sounded really sincere and knowledgeable, like he knew what he was
> talking about...

Ahh, I get it now... you're from Scotland, right?  Or is it New Zealand?
The reason I ask is that there seems to be a lot of wool over those eyes,
my friend.  :)

--- A

> Dougie.
> On 24/02/15 15:30, Andrew Hornback wrote:
> I think it's pretty safe to assume that the French got the technology
> either from the UK or the US, especially given the 1940s timeframe -
>  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_power_in_France#History
>  China comes late to the game, but they seem to be going full bore at
> building nuclear power plants -
>  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_power_in_China#History
>  Looks like the NNSA / NRC has been involved in a transfer of knowledge
> to China since 1984.
>  North Koreans got their start from the Soviets...
>  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_power_in_North_Korea#History
>  If you believe Wikipedia, but I figure it's a good place to start the
> research.
>  --- A
> On Tue, Feb 24, 2015 at 6:17 AM, doug <douglasrankine2001@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> wrote:
>>  Shit!  I forgot about North Korea...where did they get it from...
>> On 24/02/15 11:15, doug wrote:
>> Tx for that info, Ryan,
>> So let me get this right. The story so far:
>>  Einstein did the some of the theory, along with some other brilliant
>> minds wot I won't mention for the sake of brevity. The UK invented it and
>> gave it to the Americans.  The Americans developed it jointly in America
>> and used it to make atomic bombs under the Manhattan Project which they
>> then dropped on Japan at the end of World War 2, to end the war quick and
>> teach 'em a lesson, not to declare war again.
>> The Americans developed their own facilities after the war in conjunction
>> with the UK and some ex fascist nuclear physicists from Germany...and UK
>> nuclear scientists brought it back to the UK again, who used it to make
>> their own nuclear bombs,  under the pretext of using nuclear power for
>> producing electricity, by building a fast breeder reactor at Sellafield...
>> The English gave the facilities to the Scots and the Welsh to look after,
>> so that if there was a nuclear accident, then it would be far away from the
>> centres of population, and the nuclear radiation would wash away into the
>> sea...pity about the north, south current... :-)
>> America then gave the Iranians a nuclear power station and research
>> facility way back in 1968.  The Iranians gave it to Indians and the
>> Americans gave it to the Pakistanis.
>> The USSR, now Russia, stole the knowledge from the Americans and bult
>> their own toys, even bigger than anyone elses and tested them creating lots
>> of heat during the height of the Cold War.  They spread the facilities
>> throughout the Soviet Satellites, so that the West couldn't destroy it all
>> in one hit.
>> America gifted the knowledge and lots of wherewithalls to Israel, who
>> then gave it to the South African Apartheid fascist regime.
>> Where did France and the Chniese get it from?  Were they very clever and
>> invented it for themselves...or was there some hanky panky, snoopy doopy
>> shenanigans surrounding that?
>>  For all their loyalty, common sense, breeding and education, they
>> certainly can't keep a secret, these secret security and intelligence
>> agencies, can they?
>> Last of all, this little project into the origins of nuclear weapons and
>> theiir spread
>> We seem to have a Nuclear Chain Reaction open season gossip column.  Do
>> they have a mailing list for it, so that we can all join?
>> Any additional information might be quite useful...I can see a pattern
>> developing here... :-) .
>> ATB
>> Dougie.
>> On 24/02/15 07:21, Ryan Carboni wrote:
>>  south africa got the knowhow from israel who got the knowledge from
>> France.
>>  hurrah
>> On Mon, Feb 23, 2015 at 8:38 AM, doug <douglasrankine2001@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>> wrote:
>>> see url:
>>> http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/us-started-irans-nuclear-program-2/
>>> Didn't Iran get the knowhow from Pakistan who got nuclear equipment from
>>> the USA?

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