[cryptome] Re: The Nuclear Chain Reaction Gossip Column. Was: : US/Lyndon Baines Johnstone supplied Iran's Nuclear Reactor in 1967

  • From: doug <douglasrankine2001@xxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: cryptome@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2015 15:31:59 +0000

Hi Andrew,
You asked of my origins...Scotland, originally, but I have been away from there about 4 times as long as I lived there. Not so much wool over me eyes, but cataracts, comes from breeding specialist hairy haggis for Burns Suppers...they are so fine, that one can hardly see them.
Did try going to New Zealand at one stage, on one of them assisted passages for 10 quid, but it was taking so long that I did some research, found out that it was opposite us on the other side of the world and tried to dig a hole to it through me back garden, but only got 6 foot down till I hit granite...hadn't a definitive concept of distance at that time; so I gave up, and as NZ had removed the assisted passage by that stage, I hitch hiked down to London instead, with £50 in me pocket, and made me fortune there. Up till then, Duns Scotus, the Scottish Enlightenment, Adam Smith and David Hume were, major influences on my upbringing. London changed all of that.
When I was dropped off, by a lorry driver of almost impossible speech on account of his coming from Newcastle, and who used the word "muckin" as a split infinitive, rather than the other word, back pack on my back, way back in 1964, it was late at night At Euston Station, and I found a £50 note lying in the gutter. I picked it up, and then I thought to meself..."Na, I won't bother, I can start makin me fortune tomorrow", and threw it down again. This action was on account that me mum (who had never been there) told me that the streets of London were paved wi' gold, and who had always wanted to go there.
The following night, I went down to Soho and as it was getting a bit late and I needed somewhere to stay, and, as I didn't have a watch, I asked a girl on a street corner if she had the time, and she promptly slapped me in the face! It was only then that I realised that there were differences in the two cultures, and that the vernacular and idioms of the Scottish language was slightly different than that of the English version. I have never looked back since...:-) .
Regarding the internet, of course GCHQ and all sorts of government and security services, the military and so on have their own secret and private internets, intra-nets virtual nets and all sorts, where they have newsgroups, private discussion groups and blogs to keep themselves up to date with the latest developments in classified issues around the world, compartmentalised of course. The Snowden documents have revealed some of them.
Intention, a vivid imagination, personal experience and high intellect and the ability to apply it physically to ones situation, and learn from ones mistakes...even if it is to make bigger ones, are of course individual and personal traits, rather than a collective one, with that I agree.
"Education is an admirable thing, but it is as well to remember that nothing that is worth knowing can be taught", as Oscar Wilde once said in "Philosophies for the Young". Personally, I believe that the artists, no matter of what race, ethnicity, gender or age; the theorists and practitioners of the arts and sciences are born, rather than created by over-indulgent parents, specialist schools, or ruling elites and secret societies in jumped up universities, but there you are...who am I, but a hairy wee Scot...:-) . I am not saying here, by the way, that specialist training and education is no good...it should be offered to all that want it, rather than a select few.
China, as an entity, is a lot larger in terms of demography and geography and a lot older in history and cultural terms than the United States and it is only recently that it has started to industrialise in the capitalist fashion and pollute the environment in a major way. If it hadn't been for all those goods it was encouraged to produce for the US market, and its communist party subverted by American ways, then America would have been a lot poorer, and China a lot cleaner.
Perhaps the chap I mentioned (I am sorry I wish I could remember his name and his position) was suffering from a subconscious learnt process of superior cultural hegemony gained from one of those Primrose League schools which he attended, and which the representatives of huge empires usually do. When one gets too many of them it usually leads to the downfall of the empire. There arises a belief that a good education, means going to the top educational establishments, i.e. paying a lot to learn the social graces of corruption, family networking, rituals and job creation, and how to corrupt others with the minimum chance of getting caught. The Soviet Union disappeared because its communist party thought it was the cream of socieity, the intelligenzia and thought that it was more clever than anyone else and instead turned into the nomenklatura.
Such methods don't always work, of course, too many others doing the same thing. The laws of uneven development, as Karl Marx put it, means that empires come and go, and don't last forever...though it does seem like it at times. The UK went the same way early in the 19th Century, neo-colonised by the US, held in hock, just like the rest of Europe (apart from old Europe, of course...-)). l but its ruling elites still has airs and graces well above its station...Still, perhaps the application of IT, the internet, the world wide web, the social media sharing experience and the growth of the global corporations will change all of that...but I doubt it. Evolution, to survive as a theory and in practice means change, change and more change and there is nuffink anyone can do to stop it.
Ah...Well, back to knitting me eyebrows...and Tx for the info...nice to share...:-) . 
ATB
Dougie.


On 24/02/15 17:28, Andrew Hornback wrote:
On Tue, Feb 24, 2015 at 10:44 AM, doug <douglasrankine2001@xxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:douglasrankine2001@xxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote: 

    Hi Andrew,
    Tx for the urls...

    You mean you found that secret information on Wikipedia...!!! I
wonder why they haven't classified it, or prosecuted Wikipedia. Terrible all this open source stuff...They should close the 
    internet down and only make it available to people they trust:-)
There was a time when that was what happened... the era before Steve Case, as I call it. Back when the Internet was a veritable Utopia. Now, any simpleton with a few quid and a wireless device can spout off about this and that or nothing at all for the masses to consume. At some point in the future, sociologists are going to prove me right that Steve Case was the anti-Christ, that the commercialization of the Internet was a bad thing and that the birth of America On-Line and the point in time at which people stopped getting dressed up in jackets and ties (or dresses for the ladies) to go watch a professional baseball game were the points at which human civilization took horrific downturns. 

    That'll sort out the containing secrets problem...No more
    whistleblowers then...:-) .  Mind you, I suppose it is a bit
    difficult to keep a nuclear explosion, or a nuclear power reactor
    secret for long.  Victims have families and relatives after
    all...:-) . And governments have such sensitive remote sensing
    devices these days...and spies are all over the place.
The first thing that comes to mind are the secrets surrounding the Bikini Atoll test detonations... 

    Do you think that the Chinese were clever enough to develop
    nuclear power and bombs on their own?
Oh, that's not a question that I'm going to give you a straight answer to. However, I do feel that any civilization that pours enough time, education and resources into something, they'll eventually figure it out. 

    The reason I ask is because I was listening to a very clever, high
    up American citizen on the radio the other day, one of those
    academics


Okay, I see what the problem is, but continue...

    who is a member of one of those think tanks


And another problem...

    wot study China and he was comparing how much better America was
    in so many ways than China and that was why America would always
    beat China, because American culture and their way of thinking is
    much more diverse and open.  They aren't so inventive as the
    Americans.
I would disagree there. Inventiveness is not a societal trait as much as it is a human trait. Need a job done? Figure out how to do it. That's called Engineering and it isn't specific to one society, race, ethnicity, etc.
There's been some discussion as to which races are more inclined to better handling technical subjects - personally, I think that's a 55 gallon drum of worms that doesn't necessarily need to be opened since it wouldn't prove useful in the eventuality. 

    The Chinese people would find the US way of life much more
    attractive because America has got stuff like Hollywood which
    helps make people think better.
If Hollywood helps you think better why aren't graduate students in STEM fields watching 12+ hours a day worth of Mork and Mindy reruns or Ishtar or Lucas' films? Oh, wait... they are.
Having lived close to a couple of Chinatowns here in America, the one thing that they focus on to help them think better is hour after hour of education. Public school, after school tutoring, etc, etc. 

    He sounded really sincere and knowledgeable, like he knew what he
    was talking about...
Ahh, I get it now... you're from Scotland, right? Or is it New Zealand? The reason I ask is that there seems to be a lot of wool over those eyes, my friend. :) 

--- A

    ATB
    Dougie.


    On 24/02/15 15:30, Andrew Hornback wrote:

    I think it's pretty safe to assume that the French got the
    technology either from the UK or the US, especially given the
    1940s timeframe -

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_power_in_France#History

    China comes late to the game, but they seem to be going full bore
    at building nuclear power plants -

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_power_in_China#History

    Looks like the NNSA / NRC has been involved in a transfer of
    knowledge to China since 1984.

    North Koreans got their start from the Soviets...

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_power_in_North_Korea#History

    If you believe Wikipedia, but I figure it's a good place to start
    the research.

    --- A

    On Tue, Feb 24, 2015 at 6:17 AM, doug
    <douglasrankine2001@xxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:douglasrankine2001@xxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:

        Shit!  I forgot about North Korea...where did they get it
        from...


        On 24/02/15 11:15, doug wrote:

        Tx for that info, Ryan,

        So let me get this right. The story so far:

         Einstein did the some of the theory, along with some other
        brilliant minds wot I won't mention for the sake of brevity.
        The UK invented it and gave it to the Americans. The
        Americans developed it jointly in America and used it to
        make atomic bombs under the Manhattan Project which they
        then dropped on Japan at the end of World War 2, to end the
        war quick and teach 'em a lesson, not to declare war again.

        The Americans developed their own facilities after the war
        in conjunction with the UK and some ex fascist nuclear
        physicists from Germany...and UK nuclear scientists brought
        it back to the UK again, who used it to make their own
        nuclear bombs,  under the pretext of using nuclear power for
        producing electricity, by building a fast breeder reactor at
        Sellafield...
        The English gave the facilities to the Scots and the Welsh
        to look after, so that if there was a nuclear accident, then
        it would be far away from the centres of population, and the
        nuclear radiation would wash away into the sea...pity about
        the north, south current...:-)
        America then gave the Iranians a nuclear power station and
        research facility way back in 1968.  The Iranians gave it to
        Indians and the Americans gave it to the Pakistanis.

        The USSR, now Russia, stole the knowledge from the Americans
        and bult their own toys, even bigger than anyone elses and
        tested them creating lots of heat during the height of the
        Cold War.  They spread the facilities throughout the Soviet
        Satellites, so that the West couldn't destroy it all in one hit.

        America gifted the knowledge and lots of wherewithalls to
        Israel, who then gave it to the South African Apartheid
        fascist regime.

        Where did France and the Chniese get it from?  Were they
        very clever and invented it for themselves...or was there
        some hanky panky, snoopy doopy shenanigans surrounding that?

         For all their loyalty, common sense, breeding and
        education, they certainly can't keep a secret, these secret
        security and intelligence agencies, can they?

        Last of all, this little project into the origins of nuclear
        weapons and theiir spread

        We seem to have a Nuclear Chain Reaction open season gossip
        column.  Do they have a mailing list for it, so that we can
        all join?

        Any additional information might be quite useful...I can see
        a pattern developing here...:-) .
        ATB
        Dougie.


        On 24/02/15 07:21, Ryan Carboni wrote:

        south africa got the knowhow from israel who got the
        knowledge from France.

        hurrah

        On Mon, Feb 23, 2015 at 8:38 AM, doug
        <douglasrankine2001@xxxxxxxxxxx
        <mailto:douglasrankine2001@xxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:

            see url:
            http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/us-started-irans-nuclear-program-2/

            Didn't Iran get the knowhow from Pakistan who got
            nuclear equipment from the USA?

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