I know that Mustafa has done what you say he's done. However, that is not what
you've mentioned to him in your emails to him on the list. What you've done in
your emails is to try to logically argue him out of his religious beliefs.
And even if Mustafa does this stuff to people, (and mostly it's people from
other lists, not ours), no one appointed you to be a police officer or
enforcer. It's understandable if you wrote to him about this once or twice and
suggested that what he is doing seems wrong to all of the people to whom he's
doing it, that American email lists members find it objectionable, etc. But
after saying it once or twice, why continue?
So I've written about what you are doing to you because I find it
objectionable. I find reading your continuous putdowns of Mustafa, just as
unpleasant as his religious rants and putdowns of the US and of you. I prefer a
list where we post articles and have friendly, easygoing discussion.
Miriam
-----Original Message-----
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx On Behalf Of Roger Loran Bailey
(Redacted sender "rogerbailey81" for DMARC)
Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2019 10:23 PM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: This sounds like Mostafa.
Miriam, when I try to clarify a meaning or simply clarify some concept that is
neither scolding nor reprimanding. When I express my opinion that does not mean
that I am demanding that other people have the same opinion. Honestly, these
accusations of your seem to be coming out of nowhere to me. As for Mostafa,
again, the point is not that I won an argument. I did, but that is not the main
point. I know that you have already said that you don't like for me to say that
I have said something over and over, but when I do say something over and over
and you just ignore it to divert the gist of what I said to something else I
have to point out to you that I have said it over and over. So I will have to
say again that I have told you over and over what I am doing with Mostafa and
you just keep ignoring it. If Mostafa wants to talk about his religion that is
not the problem. When he forces it on other people then that is a problem. You
just keep on ignoring that and instead go on about my being so unkind or
something like that. He harvests email addresses from email groups and puts
them on his personal mailing list and bombards people with his proselytizing
and refuses to remove them no matter how much they ask him to. It is as if you
remain oblivious to that. He can keep doing it and if you are otherwise unaware
of it I can keep telling you that and you ignore it. Yes, I seem to have to
tell you that over and over. What he is doing is not just exercising his
freedom of speech. It is out and out harassment. Do you think he should be
allowed to just keep harassing people without any consequences at all. Well, if
he can bully I can bully right back. Don't you remember my telling you that
over and over? You seem to think I am the bully. You seem to think that I just
decided to harass this poor innocent Muslim for no other reason than that I am
the epitome of evil. As for other email lists, when I have something to say I
say it there too. I do seem to be misinterpreted a lot. When, for example, I
say that I don't see anything so simple about BARD Express some people who
happen to use it seem to think I am personally attacking them. Sometimes it
seems to me that all I have to do to bring on attacks against me is to say
anything and there will be people who oppose it just because I am the one who
says it. You seem to be one of those. Everyone else expresses their opinions on
this list, but when I do so you have to start denouncing it and calling it
pedantic or unkind or whatever. Mostafa is another one. But he can't stand it
if anyone at all disagrees with him. However, he is right about one thing. I
have been picking on him. I have been picking on him because he picks on other
people. He brings it on himself. And I really do resent these self righteous
religious jerks who think they have to impose their irrationalities on everyone
else. I am not like Joe though. Joe left this list especially because Mostafa
joined it. I don't feel the need to do that. I stand up to him. And, yes, I do
enjoy standing up to him. I enjoy winning a debate against him. I enjoy it when
he insults me and I enjoy pointing out his other failures and contradictions so
that he will pile more insults on me. I enjoy it because every time he does it
my position is validated. But it should be remembered that he only brings it on
himself. Others try to block him. Others may just ignore him. I expect that he
hardly notices that. Others will use his own tactics and just throw insults at
him. I doubt that effects him much either. But I actually point out where he
goes wrong. I point out his fallacies and his hypocrisy and contradictions. He
can't stand that. He is only getting what he deserves. I only wish I was not
left to do it myself. I would love it if you joined in. Carl joins in in some
fashion, but he does not meticulously point to Mostafa's fallacies and flaws
like I do. But even if I am alone and even if I do get tired of it now and then
it is just too tempting to keep pointing to his failures. I did try to ignore
him for a while, but then something captures my attention and I have to point
to his hypocrisy again. But if you really do not want to join in the fun then
you are just as free to ignore our exchanges as you think I should ignore him.
---
Voltaire
“ Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities. ”
― Voltaire,
On 7/24/2019 9:31 PM, Miriam Vieni wrote:
Roger,
You're responding to bits and pieces of what I've written, perhaps because
you don't understand what I've been attempting to say to you or perhaps,
because it's your way of fighting back. But I'm not trying to fight with you.
I know that Mustafa has written things that all of us have found to be
objectionable. I pointed out what some of his reasons may have been for
writing what he writes. I also pointed out that arguing with him only causes
him to become more upset and write more extreme things. Because this argument
between the two of you has continued for quite some time and because it
continues to escalate, I suggested that you stop responding to him. The fact
that you feel that you've won the argument is irrelevant to everyone except
you.
You have, in fact, over the course of several years, scolded me and other
people for using words incorrectly or for showing a lack of understanding of
concepts that you believe we should understand. You have complained that
you've needed to explain the same things over and over again to us because we
keep getting things wrong. You have told us to read certain books so that we
could understand all of the words and concepts that come up in our
interchanges, properly. I mentioned the word, "bourgeois", as one example of
this habitual behavior of yours. I suppose that the adjective which most
accurately describes your behavior, is, "pedantic". You reprimand us when we
stray from the ideas and useage of words, which you believe to be correct.
I've encountered you and several other lists and you don't do the same things
on those lists that you do on this one. I started this thread because of your
focus on Mustafa. I think that given the fact that his English competence is
limited and that his background and culture are different from our's, none of
us should be targeting him as you have.
Miriam
-----Original Message-----
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx On Behalf Of Roger Loran
Bailey (Redacted sender "rogerbailey81" for DMARC)
Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2019 7:52 PM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: This sounds like Mostafa.
Miriam, when I make an argument and get no refutation, but instead get a
tantrum I have won the argument. It is right there for you to see and for
everyone to see. Yes, that gives me pleasure and it does not matter if I have
convinced Mostafa of anything. I have a problem understanding how you can see
Mostafa's rants with insults and name calling in response to my calmly stated
arguments and then have the nerve to call my responses to that as somehow
nasty. What you are saying to me and the accusations that you make against me
strike me as simply insane. Where are your criticisms of Mostafa and his
vitriol? And, by the way, I have never in my life insisted that anyone use
the word bourgeois and until you came along I have never in my life had
anyone object to my using that word, ever. I do not see where you are getting
it that somehow I have a problem with anyone not using the word bourgeois.
That strikes me as insane too.
---
Voltaire
“ Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.
”
― Voltaire,
On 7/24/2019 3:56 PM, Miriam Vieni wrote:
Don't you care how unkind this email sounds? If you say it's so much fund to
give back to a bully , what he dishes out, that sounds sadistic. It doesn't
sound like justice.
For the people who use the term, "middle class", it has a specific meaning.
You have a preference for the term, "bourgeois" and you define it as you
have been taught to. But that doesn't mean that the rest of us ought to use
that term and there's no requirement for us to think as you do.
Yes, you do repeat some things over and over again and I am paying
attention. But if I don't accept something that you have been repeating over
and over again at face value, it's usually because it doesn't make sense to
me or it sounds unbelievable. I'm not sure what you mean about my not
accepting what you say are your reasons for being as stubborn and
unreasonable as Mustafa is. Your reason is that you derive pleasure in using
logic to win and argument. The only problem with your explanation is that
you haven't won the argument. You haven't proven anything to Mustafa, , and
all you've proven to the rest of us is that you can be really nasty in your
attempt to prove a point. Is that what you want to do?
Miriam
-----Original Message-----
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx On Behalf Of Roger Loran
Bailey (Redacted sender "rogerbailey81" for DMARC)
Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2019 3:08 PM
To: blind-democracy <blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: This sounds like Mostafa.
The reason bourgeois is okay is that unlike middle class it actually has a
specific meaning. I have not blocked because it is so much fun to give
back to a bully what he dishes out and I have told you that. If you don't
like my saying that I have told you something over and over then pay
attention to what I say in the first place and accept it without making up
motives for me that have nothing to do with the motives that I clearly state
over and over. And, also, you do not have to look for evidence that I am a
Marxist because I forthrightly say that I am. But that does not mean that
everything I say is Marxist theory and so it would be really nice if you
could learn how to tell a personal opinion from Marxist theory.
---
Voltaire
“ Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit
atrocities. ”
― Voltaire,
On 7/24/2019 12:53 PM, Miriam Vieni wrote:
Roger,
Why is the word, bourgeois OK, but not middle class? Your reasons that you
state over and over again, which I have read over and over again, are your
particular private prejudice. They're not rational and shouldn't be imposed
on the rest of us. You say insulting things when I, or anyone else, uses
that word, even though it is in common useage and it doesn't mean what you
choose to believe that it means. The fact that I don't accept your censure,
doesn't make you the victim.
As for Mustafa, again, you keep repeating the same thing about him over and
over again. You refuse to see his behavior through another lens. Another
list member, someone from his culture and background, has just provided you
with some verification of what I say. But no matter what evidence is
suggested to you that his behavior might be motivated by something other
than outright meanness and bullying, you are sticking to your own opinion.
Your behavior mirrors his. You excuse your bullying by saying that you are
defending yourself. You claim that religious fanatics are pursuing you and
that it is your right to fight back. However, all that Mustafa is doing is
asserting is ideas and beliefs repeatedly on email lists. He would not be
addressing you directly if you hadn't responded to him. If you don't wish
him to continue to address emails to you which you find offensive, all you
need to do is to delete his emails without responding to him. Instead, you
are choosing to insult him publicly on an email list, sometimes, even when
he hasn't been writing anything at all.
Roger, this is my last email on the subject and I chose to write it, even
knowing that it would be upsetting to you, because I believe that you've
been unfair to Mustafa and also, to others of us on this list. The ways in
which you choose to disagree with us seem hurtful and insulting to me.
Perhaps you don't realize that. But to me, and certainly to Alice while she
was a list member, your responses seemed like bullying. You scold us by
saying things like, "'ve told you over and over again and somehow you don't
understand me...". You told me in several emails that I'm misrepresenting
your opinions when I say that they derive from Marxist theory. But every
article you post is from a Marxist oriented publication. You derogate
anyone who uses the word, "socialist", in ways that you deem to be
inappropriate and you make that decision based on its literal definition in
the books you read. You've told us that we use the word, "propaganda",
inappropriately, also because we weren't using it as its used in the
socialist literature you read. I have no idea how many people have chosen
not to post to this list for fear of bringing down your wrath, or how many
people have quietly left the list because although you say that there are
no rules, they don't feel comfortable here. I'm sorry to have felt that it
was necessary to write this, but I don't want to be a coward and just take
the easy way out. Perhaps it's because I'm reading a book about a very
wealthy family whose wealth was vastly increased by its investment in
German industry during the Nazi era, or because I think the Democratic
Party, in its zeal to keep its donors and its swing voters, has led us on a
path to hell, or because the American public has allowed itself to be
manipulated into passivity. So I just feel that because this email list has
been very important to me over the past several years, I need to speak out
against something that seems wrong.
Miriam
-----Original Message-----
From: Roger Loran Bailey
Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2019 10:14 PM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx; Miriam Vieni
<miriamvieni@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [blind-democracy] Re: This sounds like Mostafa.
I am a Marxist, but that remark in there about the phrase middle class is
an example of exactly what I am talking about. Just what does my distaste
for the phrase middle class have to do with Marxism? Once before, after I
had explained over and over why I have a distaste for that phrase, you said
that you thought it was because it was not one of the classes that Marx had
delineated. I never have figured out why you thought that after I had
explained the real reasons I don't like it so many times. And that is why I
get so frustrated. I explain and explain a concept over and over and you
just don't get it and you just did it in this very message. As for Mostafa,
this is something else I have explained over and over. If Mostafa would
just express himself then he could just express himself. But he doesn't do
that. He is a relentless bully who insists on forcing his nonsense on
people. I am giving him back what he gives and I do notice that he is one
of those people who can dish it out, but can't take it.
---
Voltaire
“ Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit
atrocities. ”
― Voltaire,
On 7/23/2019 3:39 PM, Miriam Vieni wrote:
Roger,
Am I mistaken in thinking that you are a socialist and that most of the
nonfiction material that you read is influenced by Marxist theory? Haven't
you criticized people who call themselves socialist when they do not
adhere to classical socialism? Do you not write disparagingly of anyone
whose opinions seem to you to be Liberal or bourgeois? Do you not
disparage the use of the term, middle class, and accuse those who define
themselves as such of being snobs? Do you not sneer at Democratic
Socialists because they aren't in favor of what you consider to be real
socialism? Having seen all of these themes in your posts for a good number
of years, I have come to the conclusion that you are a Marxist Socialist,
whatever that actually is. You have very fixed ideas about socialism and
you continually try to indoctrinate people with those ideas when you
complain that some of us are refusing to understand you and that,
therefore, you are forced to explain a particular concept to us, yet one
more time. So, on the few occasions that your utterances aren't motivated
by your close adherence to socialist theory, I think I can be forgiven if
I mistakenly think that they are. But for those infrequent moments, I
apologize.
As for Mustafa, he may very well behave in all the ways that you describe.
But which response you make to his behavior, is your choice. An
alternative to what you invariably do, is just to allow him to express his
beliefs and his assertions and his anger and his sense of superiority
anddo or say nothing at all. How long do you imagine that he would
continue to insult you if you ignored him?
Miriam
-----Original Message-----
From: blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx On Behalf Of Roger Loran
Bailey (Redacted sender "rogerbailey81" for DMARC)
Sent: Monday, July 22, 2019 9:22 PM
To: blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: This sounds like Mostafa.
You would do a lot better if you just dumped the assumptions and
accepted the stated motivations that are clearly given. To allude
to just another example, you might stop calling my personal
opinions Marxist theory when they have little to do with Marxist
theory and when I point you to a book that I have never read the
synopsis of which makes me think it might explain what fascism is
you wouldn't assume that it gave some kind of Marxist definition of
Marxism. But again with Mostafa. He does not just explain his
religion. He does not just discuss it. He seeks people out and puts
them on his personal mailing list and won't let them go and when
they ask to be removed he just keeps bombarding them with his
proselytizing anyway.
That is not exercising his freedom of speech. That is out and out
harassment and I see no excuse for it. As for telling him that his
preaching is not welcome on this list, I set up this list with the
full intention of moderating it by not moderating it. As far as I
am concerned he or anyone else can say anything they want here and
I have never banned or altered any post that he has ever made here.
He can exercise his freedom of speech here, but he has to face up
to the fact that some people will disagree with him and say so. I
not only say so, but I show him where he is wrong. Of course, with
faith on his side he will not admit it no matter how well I show
him to be wrong, but I still show him to be wrong
---
Voltaire
“ Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit
atrocities. ”
― Voltaire,
On 7/22/2019 5:16 PM, Miriam Vieni wrote:
I didn't mean that you literally represent the American empire. What I
meant was that all of us on this list, represent the American empire to
Mustafa. We're all in America. He's writing to us about what our
government does. Why do you suppose that he does that?
I suppose that you're correct when you say that I'm making assumptions
about people's motivations. That's what most people do and I do that a
lot because of my professional training and because of my personal
inclinations. And I don't always accept the reasons that people give for
their behavior as their true motivations. I can see how that might make
you angry.
As for proselytizing, there were two times in my life when someone tried
to convince me to believe in God. Each time, I responded that I had my
own beliefs and value system, that I respected their right to believe as
they did, and I would appreciate it if they would respect my right to do
the same. It was friendly and there were no arguments. So I suspect that
when Mustafa began to write about religion, you could have chosen not to
answer those particular posts, just as I did, and there would have been
no more discussion. Or you might have written that you respected his
right to his religious beliefs, but you would appreciate it if he did not
share them on this list. I don't know what his response would have been
to that. But you chose to debate him instead. You made a decision that if
anyone began attempting to convince you to believe as he or she did about
religion, it was your right and your duty to fight back. When Mustafa has
written about religion on other lists, other people have made similar
choices. Given the results of these discussions, I wonder why people
keep having them. The only conclusion which I can draw is that you derive
some kind of emotional satisfaction from endless argument. From your
explanation to me, it sounds like what you're saying is that you are
seeking revenge because you say, " I don't know why you want to try to
pretend to read minds when I so clearly lay out to you why I am actually
doing something. Mostafa is a bully and a harasser and I am giving it
right back to him."
Miriam
-----Original Message-----
From:blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx On Behalf Of Roger
Loran Bailey (Redacted sender "rogerbailey81" for DMARC)
Sent: Monday, July 22, 2019 3:43 PM
To: blind-democracy<blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: This sounds like Mostafa.
On two levels you seem to have never paid attention to anything I have
ever said. It is a real stretch to say that I represent U.S.
imperialism. I have denounced imperialism over and over. But on the
second level you are trying to read minds, both mine and Mostafa's. Does
it not even occur to you to accept stated motives rather than pretend to
know what people are thinking and base your guesses at motives on your
assumed telepathy. Okay, let me explain it again. While I may get some
gratification out of winning a contest of logic against Mostafa that is
not why I do it. I also do not do it to convince him of anything. I have
said over and over that no matter how religious a person might be, if
they don't bother me about their religion I don't bother them about their
religion. But when it comes to those religious harassers it is another
matter. I am talking about the ones who follow you around trying to beat
you over the head with their religion. I am talking about the ones will
not leave you alone no matter how much you tell them that you are not
interested. I am talking about the kind of people who will follow a blind
man down the street screaming at him that god has struck him blind
because he turned his back on Jesus. I got fed up with those ass holes
years ago, but no matter how much I tell them that I am fed up with them
insulting my intelligence with their harassment they won't stop. So here
we have a religious harasser. He is the first Muslim harasser I have come
across unless you count the one who would not let me off his email list
back before Mostafa came along, but he is still a religious harasser. He
first came to my attention when other people started to complain about
him on various email lists. He harvested email addresses and bombarded
people with his proselytizing and when they asked to be removed he
refused. When people blocked him he tried to get around the blocks. This
is outright harassment. It is bullying. So I fight back. I may not fight
back in the same way that others fight back, but I fight back. I engage
him in logical debate because he insults my intelligence and since this
is an argument that I always win I always manage to point up who the real
idiot is. And don't say that I win in my own mind. When I make a logical
argument or point out a logical fallacy in his arguments and he has no
refutation, but only launches into a tantrum of name calling, insults and
threats, I win and my win is right there for you and anyone who is
reading the exchange to see. I take on the challenge because if he wants
to insult my intelligence it is like saying, okay, let's see who the real
fool is. Now, I have told you my motives again. There is no reason for
you to ignore what I have said that my motives for taking on Mostafa are.
I don't know why you want to try to pretend to read minds when I so
clearly lay out to you why I am actually doing something. Mostafa is a
bully and a harasser and I am giving it right back to him.
---
Voltaire
“ Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit
atrocities. ”
― Voltaire,
On 7/22/2019 9:27 AM, Miriam Vieni wrote:
I forgot one more factor and that is a political one. In these debates,
Roger inadvertently represents the US, the super power of the world, the
country that overthrows democracies in favor of dictators who support it
and then provides military aid to the dictators. It has proclaimed,
since W Bush's administration, a Christian crusade, with many members of
the military saying this explicitly. Mustafa is a citizen of one of the
multitude of countries that the US dominates. When Mustafa proclaims his
version of the truth on our list, he is also proclaiming his rage at the
US for how it behaves in the Middle East. Roger's self satisfaction when
he believes that he has won a logical argument, doesn't undo any of what
is really going on. Winning an argument with logic doesn't obliterate
religious belief or the anger of people in other countries or Mustafa's
need to assert himself. It's kind of like getting into a fist fight in a
bar. You win the fight and you feel good momentarily, but nothing has
changed.
Miriam
-----Original Message-----
From: Roger Loran Bailey
Sent: Sunday, July 21, 2019 9:54 PM
To:blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx; Miriam Vieni
<miriamvieni@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [blind-democracy] Re: This sounds like Mostafa.
Name calling and insult throwing is not an example of poor English
skills. It is just hostility and tantrum throwing. I bested Mostafa in a
debate in logic. He has been throwing a tantrum ever since.
---
Voltaire
“ Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit
atrocities. ”
― Voltaire,
On 7/21/2019 9:18 PM, Miriam Vieni wrote:
There may be several factors involved in the faulty communication
between Roger and Mustafa. One of them is Mustafa's limitations in
expressing himself in English. He may be sounding more emphatic than he
means to because he doesn't know the idioms and nuances of the English
language. Roger may not always truly comprehend what Mustafa is
attempting to say. Another problem is that they come from totally
different cultural backgrounds. They don't start from the same
assumptions. That fact certainly impedes positive communication. A
third factor may be that each is emotionally invested in his point of
view. When they become involved in verbal confrontations, each feels
that his manhood or his is involved. And there's one more thing. Roger
apparently believes that it is his duty to educate everyone or, to put
it another way, to convince everyone to think as he does. Mustafa may
have the same compulsion. I don't enjoy battles so I don't read their
email debates. I just delete them. I remember one night when Joe and
Frank were engaged in a terrible email fight. That was an awful
experience and it was the last time I ever read battling emails.
Miriam
-----Original Message-----
From:blind-democracy-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx On Behalf Of Roger
Loran Bailey (Redacted sender "rogerbailey81" for DMARC)
Sent: Sunday, July 21, 2019 8:41 PM
To:blind-democracy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx; Carl
Jarvis<carjar82@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [blind-democracy] Re: This sounds like Mostafa.
By all means, any of us can have a gap in our education. That was a
point I was making in my other message about whether there is such a
thing as a stupid question. If it is an honest question asked in an
attempt to learn it is not a stupid question. Sometimes it can be a bit
frustrating when you realize that in order to answer it in a way that
the questioner will understand you will have to start educating that
person from an elementary school level and I, for one, cannot do that.
However, if it is an honest question asked with the intention of
learning I can try to do my best to answer. However, an honest attempt
to learn is not what Mostafa is doing with his ignorant questions and
pronouncements. He proudly shows his ignorance in order to discredit
entire branches of science. He shows his ignorance in order to
discredit me. At least that is what he is trying to do. But he manages
to actually ask questions that have to be called stupid questions. They
are stupid because when he gets an answer he refuses to accept it. He
just keeps repeating the ignorance that he has been caught up in. That
is a refusal to learn. It is just a hostile act. And what he discredits
more than anything is himself.
---
Voltaire
??? Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit
atrocities. ???
??? Voltaire,
On 7/21/2019 1:02 PM, Carl Jarvis wrote:
It's frustrating. But I would point out that any of us can
have a gap in our education, or a lack of ability to grasp
information that is well understood by other people.
The value of an opinion based list, such as this one should be,
that we can expose our lack of education and receive positive
guidance without feeling threatened or put down. But that
calls for an open mind on our part, and understanding people
who give their information and opinions in a helpful and caring manner.
Carl Jarvis...who has learned a great deal through interaction on this
list.
On 7/20/19, Roger Loran Bailey<dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
I just had to tell you guys about this. This sounds exactly
like something Mostafa would say. There is a Facebook
discussion group on the subject of science that I subscribe to.
It is open to all, but I would expect that people who would
subscribe would have some interest in science and so would
have some kind of knowledge of science even if only rudimentary.
Apparently that is not the case.
Someone just showed up and said that we all know that
combustion requires the presence of oxygen, so is there oxygen
in the sun to make combustion take place there? Some others
started to give answers explaining that chemical combustion
takes place in the presence of oxygen, but that what is
happening in the sun is nuclear fusion. Personally, it seems
to me that if a person could seriously ask that question then
it is unlikely that he would understand such answers. I would
not be surprised if he did not even know what nuclear fusion
is. I did not even bother to try to answer him. With someone
like that the only way to give a good answer would be to go
back to elementary science class and teach him that and to
continue to teach him until he finally reached a point that he
could understand. This is exactly how I feel when Mostafa asks
questions like, if we descended from monkeys then why are there still
monkeys?
How can you give a meaningful answer to someone that ignorant?
It is exasperating. It is also similar to another one I saw
once. I don't know if this was supposed to be a joke, but if
it wasn't it is about just as exasperating. Someone from Nigeria once
asked, if the Earth really rotates then why am I still in Nigeria?
--
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Voltaire
??? Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you
commit atrocities. ???
??? Voltaire,
