Frankly, an adolescent can obtain books from a so-called adult bookstore pretty easily too. They just ask someone else to walk in and buy it for them. I used to work in one. I could see the younger guy waiting outside while the older guy came in to make a purchase. Then they pass the stuff around. Of course, while they are busily consuming all of that stuff their parents are busy saying that their precious little darlings have no interest in porn and would never look at it or even get near it. That is why it is so ludicrous to ban it from them. Disabled adolescents have a more difficult problem accessing such material though.
On 11/11/2012 10:18 PM, Kelly Pierce wrote:
I understand the need to restrict adult content. However, much of the books Bookshare's software labels as adult would not be found in an adult bookstore in a major American city and could be obtained by an adolescent at a mainstream bookstore. the issue is that these mainstream books available to those under 18 without disabilities are restricted by bookshare to those with disabilities. Parents should absolutely be involved in a child's life. the issue rather is one of disability rights. Can children with disabilities have the same access to books as their non-disabled peers? We don't know the assumptions designed into the filtering software used to label content adult. it appears from an earlier analysis that information about women's health is considered adult including information about reproductive choices. similarly, information about puberty is also restricted. I will await Bookshare's answer regarding access restriction to girls about knowing about their bodies, part of a larger societal push in the past election cycle of keeping girls and women uninformed and submissive. It is unclear what role the United States Department of Education, one of Bookshare's biggest funders, plays in this restriction and what content the federal government believes is inappropriate for children with disabilities. Kelly On 11/11/12, Roger Loran Bailey <rogerbailey81@xxxxxxx> wrote:Actually those under the age of 18 do have the books marked adult content automatically banned for them. Yes, that can be removed at the parents request, but that doesn't help people under the age of 18 if their parents won't ask for the restriction to be removed. It would be a step forward if the restriction was off by default and the parents had to request that it be turned on, but that is still facilitating censorship by parents who are not very progressive. As for sixth graders, that is about age 11 to 12. You would be surprised at what your sixth graders are reading, doing, hearing, seeing without your knowledge. Honestly, those words that get a book marked as having so-called adult content are words that you can't walk down the street without hearing. So what's the big deal. There is no way you can prevent your children from being exposed to such things anyway without utterly imprisoning them. Think of your own childhood. What were you exposed to without your parents' knowledge and how did it hurt you? As for who marks the books adult content, I do not go out of my way to submit books that would get marked that way and it has been some time since one was and it has also been some time since I proofed one and when I did I don't think that I proofed any that had the adult content box checked. If I did, though, I would remove it. In the past I have submitted some that the Bookshare tools did mark as adult content. I found that I was unable to remove the designation myself. I just added to the comments section that the proofreader remove it. There do seem to be an influx of publisher submitted books that are getting that designation though. By the way, I mentioned earlier that I read that book with the title When Wizards Rule. After writing my review in which I complained that there was entirely too much sex in the book I did submit a quality report saying that the adult designation should be removed. I was denied. Oh well, I tried. On 11/11/2012 3:44 PM, Cindy Rosenthal wrote:I did not want my 6th-grade daughters to readI don't think it's bookshare that labels books A.C.; it's the proofer; the scanner might do so but the proofer has the option of removing that label before checking in the book. I have labeled as O.C.books that I thought might offend some of our sensitive members; that gives them knowledge about the book that can help them decide whether or not they want to read the book; as far as children under the age of 18, they are not automatically prevented from reading such books; if it's o.k. with their parents, the restricted access can be removed (and I assume such a young adult will discuss it with his/her parents; I know one such young lady wants to be free to read whatever she wants, and I think she has had her parents remove the restriction. I do think parents should be able to decide what they want their children to be able to read; they know their children and know what might give them "wrong" ideas or cause bad dreams I did not want my 6th-grade daughters to read Flowers in the Attic or --what's the book /movie with orange in the title that's futuristic and has so much violence? Cindy On 11/11/2012 12:31 AM, Kelly Pierce wrote: The library and bookstore test sounds reasonable until it is realized that communities in different parts of America find certain material unacceptable where other communities do not. Someone under 18 can read on premises or purchase nearly all of the books the Bookshare unit of Benetech says are only suitable to adults at a library or independent or women’s bookstore in San Francisco, new York’s Greenwich village or on the north side of Chicago, where I live. This is likely not the situation in other places in the country not as liberal, permissive, tolerant and accepting. In reviewing some of the items Bookshare has slapped with the adult content label, it seems clear that the organization has adopted some of the attitudes of Todd Akin of Missouri, Richard Mourdock of Indiana, and Paul Ryan of Wisconsin. Their beliefs and views about women were completely repudiated by voters on November 6. Bookshare has labeled the books “My Body, My Self for Boys” and “My Body, My Self for Girls” as for adults only. Information about the books is below. The publisher, Harper Collins, describes the books are for those age 10 and above. Harper Collins is a unit of media giant News Corporation, which owns such properties as the New York Post and the Fox News Channel. A company with a conservative pedigree creates a book about puberty and sexuality for teens that Benetech through Bookshare prevents teens from accessing. Also stuck with the adult label is the book “Our Bodies, Ourselves,” an iconic touchstone of the 1970s women’s liberation movement. The work represents the first major effort of women to share information about women’s health beyond the range of experts and major social institutions. The book has sold millions of copies and has been published in more than 30 languages. I know of a number of places where an adolescent girl could buy this book without any hassle or questions. Some believe, like the three losing politicians and Bookshare, that women and girls along with young males should not have this kind of information. An HIV infection or a pregnancy through a sexual assault, whether or not it meets Paul Ryan’s idea of “forcible,” is “god’s will.” This notion is reprehensible and Bookshare seems to be joining hands with those who advocate this viewpoint. Benetech claims it stands for the human rights of people all throughout the world. Yet, it seeks to control information to girls with disabilities about their bodies that is easily available to girls without disabilities where I live. Supporting human rights includes elevating the status of women and girls so that they have the knowledge to make informed decisions about their bodies. In my state, a teenage girl can become pregnant and have an abortion without telling her parents or getting their permission. Yet Benetech, through Bookshare says information about contraception and abortion found in these books is “adult” material and off limits to girls. Maybe it’s time Bookshare staff recognize human rights includes the freedom to read about topics some would rather not surface. If Bookshare’s decision on these and similar books labeled as “adult” but would never be found in an adult bookstore is an imposition that a funder stipulated to Benetech to receive funds, that funder should be identified and what exactly they stipulated. I want to know if this unnamed funder states that girls with disabilities should not know about contraception or that teens of both sexes should not learn about puberty even though the publisher, a major international corporation, has clearly stated it is age appropriate. Kelly My Body, My Self for Boys Lynda Madaras The Madaras growing-up guides are acknowledged by parents, educators, librarians, and doctors for their unique, nonthreatening style, excellent organization, and thorough coverage of both the physical and emotional issues surrounding puberty and adolescence. And kids love them too! As one fan wrote, "Dear Lynda, I can't believe that you, a mom, knew all this stuff!" My Body, My Self for Boys is filled with activities, checklists, illustrations, and plenty of room for journal jottings, plus lots of personal stories in which boys share their concerns and experiences about growing up. For ages 10 and up. My Body, My Self for Girls Area Madaras and Lynda Madaras Our Bodies, Ourselves Judy Norsigian and Boston Women's Health Book Collective Our Bodies, Ourselves is the resource that women of all ages turn to for information about their bodies, sexuality, and reproductive health. What's happening to my body? Is this normal? This fact-filled journal and activity book makes it fun for girls to find answers to their many questions about the physical and emotional changes that accompany puberty. On 11/10/12, Lisa Gorden-Cushman <crysania@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:crysania@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote: When I was a kid, I would keep reading a book if there were sexual content, and laugh a little at the adults who didn't know what I was reading. Perhaps it would be good to have a little look out for parents. From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> [mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>] On Behalf Of Roger Loran Bailey Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2012 11:28 AM To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Adult Content I don't see the relevance either. I have never either read or not read any book because it either did or did not contain sexual content. Again, if you don't like the book, whether it is because of the presence of certain words or descriptions of virtually anything or for any other reason, you can just stop reading it. It is completely beyond reason to expect other people to read your mind and to pick and choose and label books for you so that you will never get one that you do not like,. That goes for teens and kids too. If a child picks up a book that contains something that the child does not like or finds objectionable then the child will most likely get bored and just stop reading it. The whole idea that adults need to decide for children what they can and cannot read is offensive to me. On 11/10/2012 1:09 PM, Sandi Ryan wrote: I have read BARD books since I was ten, and have never once picked a book simply because it did or did not have the symbols indicating "Explicit descriptions of sex, strong language, or violence." I suspect some people use those designations as a positive reason for choosing certain books, but I have always believed that if I chose only those books without such designations, I'd miss out on an awful lot of real life. Your choice is your own, but I see no reason for Bookshare (or the BARD, for that matter) to judge the contents of books. It might be helpful for kids and teens, but in those cases, if the parents are concerned, they should pick what books their kids can read. Sandi ----- Original Message ----- From: Ali Al-hajamy <mailto:aalhajamy@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:aalhajamy@xxxxxxxxx>> To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2012 12:02 PM Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Adult Content In addition, there is no way that we can relabel all 170000 books currently in the collection to reflect what kind of language they contain or if there is violence and sex. I suppose, if you really, really cared, you could create a program that counts every instance of swear words, and would insert some kind of label such as "strong language" into the book's metadata, say the short or long description, based on the number of times it found "obscene" words in the text, but why do that? If our experience is to mirror that of the able-eyed user at a bookstore or library, adding such labels would be counterproductive to that goal, since the sighted don't have giant stickers on their books that say that a book has swearing and sex. And such a program would only work for strong language, since different writers use different words to describe violent and sexual situations. Your best bet if you're sensative and want your books to be free of that kind of thing is to read reviews and excerpts rather than make everyone else do the work for you. On 10-Nov-12 12:51, Roger Loran Bailey wrote: I will say this again. There is no way possible to know that you will not like a book until you read it. You might get an idea by reading reviews and listening to people discuss books, but you will not actually know until you try it. You should also not expect other people to filter your books for you. Their opinions of what you will or will not like may not be the same as your own opinions. For that reason I would suggest that books just be submitted in the same manner as any other book no matter what kind of language they might contain. If a proofreader turns out to not like it then that proofreader can just release it. On 11/9/2012 8:03 PM, Cindy Rosenthal wrote: Hmmm. But what about our sensitive members who don't like to read books with profanity or explicit sex; should we, raher than label them AC, put some kind of warning somewhere? Does what we put in the Comments section get attached to the book fle? I'munder the impression that those comments are only for the book share administrators, e.g. like errors in punctuation and spelling are as they are in the print book. I think I have in the past put such "warnings" in the synopsis or somewhere but told it didn't belong there. Cindy On Fri, Nov 9, 2012 at 2:53 PM, Madeleine Linares <Madeleinel@xxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:Madeleinel@xxxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote: Hi everyone, I thought it was about time for a refresher course in what we mean by Adult Content (also known as "AC"). There has been some confusion (off-list) and I've noticed it incorrectly marked in the Approval Queue. Here is a note from our Collection Development Manager on our definition: "Our policy, developed in conjunction with our OSEP funders, is that there are certain kinds of content -- explicit depictions of sexual acts with no redeeming social value, as well as extreme and gratuitous violence -- will require a minor to get an adult guardian's permission to access. As a "content-neutral" collection, we will never exclude a title for any potentially controversial or distasteful content, but we will tag some content for adult (or minors with a guardian's permission) use only. The idea is that parents can control the access their kids have to content deemed potentially inappropriate -- but they don't have the right to control or limit access to anybody else's kids. The "walking into a bookstore or library" test continues to be a good one. Could a non-print-disabled kid walk into a good bookstore or public library and get a copy of this book without an adult being involved? If the answer is yes, a print-disabled kid should be able to do the same on Bookshare. We are not interested in placing additional barriers to access for our members that their peers do not experience. This means we do have stuff available to members under 18 that has sex, and swearing, and violence, and substance abuse in it, and that is okay and in keeping with the generally recognized standards of "freedom to read" policy in this country. We don't have a perfect implementation of this policy yet -- I see evidence that we were a little more strait-laced in the early days (and fix it when I come across it), and our automated filtering from publisher feeds still needs some fine-tuning. When I'm trying to navigate something particular "gray area-y" like the steamier of the romances coming in, I ask myself about the intent -- is the action (even if hot and heavy) designed to move the characters towards relationship, or is the plot driven only by the need to get body parts intermingling again? It's the latter that's clearly AC, while the former continues to be ambiguous. Author intent is, alas, pretty gray-area-y and subjective itself, but I think it can help separate the sheep from the goats." Adult content is confusing and clearly not black and white. Many romances (such as a lot of the Harlequin ones), though certainly racy, should not be labeled as AC. A 16-year-old could walk into a book store and buy ones of those books just as easily as a 38-year old, although his or her parents might not approve and might consider the content inappropriate. Anyway, just thought it couldn't hurt to remind everyone! Feel free to contact me with questions, as always. Best, Madeleine Linares Volunteer Coordinator Bookshare, a Benetech Initiative 650-644-3459 <tel:650-644-3459> madeleinel@xxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:madeleinel@xxxxxxxxxxxx> Join us in celebrating our 10 <http://blog.bookshare.org/2012/03/11/join-bookshares-worldwide-10th-anniver sary-celebration/> th Anniversary! Title: Bookshare logo: Bringing Reading to Life for 10 Years To unsubscribe from this list send a blank Email to bksvol-discuss-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:bksvol-discuss-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> put the word 'unsubscribe' by itself in the subject line. To get a list of available commands, put the word 'help' by itself in the subject line. To unsubscribe from this list send a blank Email to bksvol-discuss-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:bksvol-discuss-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> put the word 'unsubscribe' by itself in the subject line. To get a list of available commands, put the word 'help' by itself in the subject line. answer was that AIDS is, indeed, one of those real dangers and it is a very good example. It is a very good example because not only is it a real danger that is being ignored by those who want to "protect" children by censorship, but it is also a danger that the anti-sex censors want to deprive children of the knowledge that they need to actually protect them from it. The more they try to justify themselves the more ridiculous they get.To unsubscribe from this list send a blank Email to bksvol-discuss-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx put the word 'unsubscribe' by itself in the subject line. To get a list of available commands, put the word 'help' by itself in the subject line.
To unsubscribe from this list send a blank Email to bksvol-discuss-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx put the word 'unsubscribe' by itself in the subject line. To get a list of available commands, put the word 'help' by itself in the subject line.
