[audacity4blind] Re: Sync-Lock WAS Re: Re: Track/project length, SyncLock and more

  • From: Gale Andrews <gale@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: audacity4blind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2012 00:55:35 +0100

| From "Robbie" <tickleberryfun@xxxxxxxxx> 
| Fri, 12 Oct 2012 21:17:27 +0200
| Subject: Sync-Lock WAS Re: Re: Track/project length, SyncLock and more
> Hi David!
> Assuming that my assumption and your understanding are correct, I agree
> that Sync-Lock Icon is too long. I'm still with Sync-Locked as a status
> indication for affected tracks.
> Goodness, and only this afternoon I thought what does it matter, two
> letters. :-) But it's good to sort these things out and arrive at a
> solution that will work fine for all of us. And what's more, is understood
> by all of us...
> 
> Cheers, Robbie

@Steve, screen readers read the Track Control Panel for the track
that has focus. With David's patch, "Sync-Locked" is only read
when the track is selected (IsSyncLockSelected).  

"Sync-Lock Icon" doesn't mean much, but is accurate . "Sync-Locked" 
is fine, as long as people understand it really means no more than 
"Sync-Lock Selected". 

To give another example, suppose we have two syn-locked
groups (remember that label tracks separate different groups in 
the current scheme):

Audio Track 1
Audio Track 2 
Label Track 1 
Audio Track 3
Audio Track 4 .

If for example you select some audio in Track 4 only, the Sync-Lock 
icon is "on" in Audio Track 3 and Audio Track 4, indicating that if
you make a length change in either of those tracks, both will be 
affected (but tracks above will not be affected). 

That's fine, except there is a source of confusion if you move 
the focus above track 3 - there is no icon for Audio Track 1, 
Audio Track 2 or the Label Track, although they are part of a 
Sync-Locked group too.

This distinction between the upper group and the lower group is
essential for VI users though (once they understand it), because 
they can't see the "Sync-Lock selection" containing "clock" icons 
in Audio Track 3 (which indicates that the selection in Audio Track 3
will be acted on as well as the actual selection in Audio Track 4).  

So, on balance I'll concur that "Sync Locked" is probably better
than "Sync-Lock On" for VI users... as long as they don't get 
confused by the icon appearing and disappearing, and 
understand that the absence of the icon does not mean that the
track is not in a group. I still think we want "Sync-Locled" last,
though (after "Select On"  or "Not Selected").   

Sighted users however probably need a better solution for the 
Time Shift Tool scenario and for realising that all tracks are in a
group, selected or not. 




Gale 


> -----Original Message-----
> From: audacity4blind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:audacity4blind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of David Bailes
> Sent: Friday, October 12, 2012 8:51 PM
> To: audacity4blind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [audacity4blind] Re: Sync-Lock WAS Re: Re: Track/project length,
> SyncLock and more
> 
> Hi Robbie,
> you said:
> "I assumed the icon would show for which ever tracks are affected if
> Sync-Lock is activated."
> 
> My understanding is that is indeed the case, except for moving tracks
> using the time shift tool.
> It's unlikely that many users of screen readers use the time shift tool,
> so for users of screen readers, there's less potential confusion than for
> sighted users.
> 
> The screen reader could read "sync locked icon" rather than "sync locked",
> but its longer, and I'm not sure it's more meaningful.
> 
> David.
> 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Robbie <tickleberryfun@xxxxxxxxx>
> To: audacity4blind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Cc:
> Sent: Friday, 12 October 2012, 19:29
> Subject: [audacity4blind] Re: Sync-Lock WAS Re: Re: Track/project length,
> SyncLock and more
> 
> Hi Gale!
> OK, I assumed the icon would show for which ever tracks are affected if
> Sync-Lock is activated. In that regard I would prefer it to be a state
> indicator. I bet sighted users are confused too by the logic behind the
> absence / presence of the icon?
> 
> Cheers, Robbie
> -----Original Message-----
> From: audacity4blind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:audacity4blind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Steve the Fiddle
> Sent: Friday, October 12, 2012 8:01 PM
> To: audacity4blind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [audacity4blind] Re: Sync-Lock WAS Re: Re: Track/project length,
> SyncLock and more
> 
> Doesn't this become complex when you get into the detail :grin:
> 
> Do screen readers read the track panel for selected tracks or for the
> track that has focus?
> 
> If they read the track panel for the track that has focus, would it be
> better if the Sync-Lock status was read when enabled, whether the
> sync-lock icon is displayed or not?
> 
> 1) If the Sync-Lock status is read for all Sync-Locked tracks and not only
> for selected Sync-Locked tracks, then I agree that "Sync Lock On"
> is better.
> 
> 2) If the Sync-Lock status is only read when the track is selected, and
> thus is putting the meaning of the track Sync-Lock Icon into words, then I
> think "Sync-Locked" is probably a better description.
> 
> Of these two options I would expect that declaring the Sync-Lock status,
> whether or not the icon is displayed, would be more useful (option 1).
> 
> Steve
> 
> On 12 October 2012 18:08, Gale Andrews <gale@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >
> > | From David Bailes <david_bailes@xxxxxxxxxxx> Fri, 12 Oct 2012
> > | 11:37:01 +0100 (BST)
> > | Subject: Sync-Lock WAS Re: Re: Track/project length, SyncLock and
> > | more
> >> Hi Robbie,
> >> thanks for the feedback.
> >> Do you have any preference about whether it should be "sync locked on"
> or just "sync locked". An audacity developer thought that it should be
> "sync locked on" to fit in with the others, like select on, but I think
> that just sync locked would be shorter and just as informative. Any views?
> >
> > I agreed with that developer, but the menu item is "Sync-Lock Tracks"
> > so that developer and I suggested "Sync-Lock On".
> > Isn't "Sync-Lock On" more grammatically correct than "Sync-Locked On"?
> >
> > The Sync-Lock icon is not a state indicator for the track (this is
> > arguably wrong). So if the Sync-Lock Tracks menu item is on,
> > timeshifting a track shifts all tracks in the group, even if the icon
> > is off because no tracks are selected. For that reason "Sync-Locked"
> > may be more misleading than "Sync-Lock On", though if VI users do not
> > use Time Shift Tool this may not matter.
> >
> > While "Sync-Locked" is possibly OK if it is spoken last, it is not OK
> > if spoken before "Select On" because it sounds like "Sync-Locked
> > Select On".
> >
> > I also noticed that Sync-Lock has relatively little effect on the
> > Tracks > Align Tracks commands which VI users use. When Sync-Lock
> > Tracks is off, these align commands work just on the selected
> > track(s), but when Sync-Lock Tracks is on, these commands still only
> > work on the selected tracks. The only difference is that when
> > Sync-Lock Tracks is on, any unselected tracks in the sync-locked group
> > shift to keep synchronisation with the selected tracks that were
> > realigned.  I think this is probably OK, though.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Gale
> >
> >
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: Robbie <tickleberryfun@xxxxxxxxx>
> >> To: audacity4blind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> Cc:
> >> Sent: Friday, 12 October 2012, 11:03
> >> Subject: [audacity4blind] Re: Sync-Lock WAS Re: Re: Track/project
> >> length, SyncLock and more
> >>
> >> Hi David!
> >> That sounds good. I think Sync-Locked should be spoken after Solo,
> >> Mute and Select, since these are statuses which the user might change
> >> while processing a sync-lockdd group. So if I mute a trac for
> >> instance, I'D want to have that confirmed before the fixed status of
> Sync-Locked is announced.
> >>
> >> Cheers, Robbie
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: audacity4blind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> [mailto:audacity4blind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of David
> >> Bailes
> >> Sent: Friday, October 12, 2012 11:14 AM
> >> To: audacity4blind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> Subject: [audacity4blind] Re: Sync-Lock WAS Re: Re: Track/project
> >> length, SyncLock and more
> >>
> >> Hi Robbie and anyone else interested, Audacity needs only a very
> >> minor modification so that screen readers will read whether a track
> >> is displaying the sync locked icon, in a similar manner to select,
> >> mute etc. A track displays this icon if sync-lock tracks is checked
> >> on the tracks menu, and at least one track is selected in the group.
> >> A couple of questions about what screen readers should say:
> >> 1. Any preference as to whether the phase "sync locked" or "sync
> >> locked
> on"
> >> is used?
> >> 2. Any preference as to whether for a selected track the sync locked
> >> phrase is read before or after "selected on".
> >>
> >> thanks,
> >> David.


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