1) that Red and Blue flights had become too separated and were no longer
mutually supporting, although the pairs were flying together well;
well, that was because the p51 flying behind us accidently fired his
guns and Roke broke before I could tell him it was a friend, thereafter
by time we had got past the confusion and reformed after S turns we wuz
separated from the other flight.
My connection was on way out - I was above when roke was shot by plane
actually in front of him from my connection. Odd seeing a plane fire and
hit the one behind :) which then promptly hopped in front and started
smoking. I was gonna scream about warping t****ts but seems it was me.
Saw the first two 109s boom pass us, saw another coming in on my high
4(in fact two but one seemed a fair bit further back), at my 300mph, I
should have had time to avoid as the first ones but rather like the
second flight where I was asking if you had disconnected because you'd
disappeared (then 20secs later you reported I disappeared) it just
blinked out, I pulled hard but guess already was gone. I never bothered
flying again, talked to dutch for an hour and t/s
disconnected/reconnected me 3 or 4 times more in that time.
Its been happening here continously since Friday. Tonight is no
different. Internet just keeps going out (or very slow as sometimes the
router disconnect light is not illuminating) - usually its bad weather
but summat else this time. Sometimes get a heads-up hearing a son scream
from upstairs. We are all getting pretty annoyed - we tried to watch
last episode at dinner of the expanse and after 3 buffering episodes
just rage quit.
So possibly wont be around until it at least goes back to normal (even
if slow compared to everyone else).
One bomb still hung - just goes to show how in a a20 bomber without
techchat you cannot rely that even three button pushes drops two bombs
(or make the right selection), here highlighted by tempest when I aint
gonna look down to check cockpit. 3 pushes but only one released.
TTFN
Stickz
On 26/04/2021 21:32, Joe Stronach (Redacted sender jstronach for DMARC)
wrote:
Well, from my pov, we saw and heard the p51s were engaged. I saw one aircraft spinning down (no ID) in the distance, then Stickz and I noticed aircraft closing on our 6. Without a mirror in the Tempest, I couldn't ID them, but we figured they may well be hostile so manouvred accordingly.
I knew Java were engaged, but didn't know they were two down. Essentially, I presumed two or three P51s were still in the fight, and in proximity. The correct move for Stickz and me - given our E disadvantage and the ACTUAL odds was to disengage after our initial evasion, and we might have been able to do that.
Anyway, having miss-read the odds and turned to stay in the fight, I avoided a head - on from one 109 but was then was insta-killed by Bart, who I hadn't seen come back down behind me.
I'm not sure if Witch shot Stickz's digital ghost, as I think he discoed at a bad moment.
Tactical lessons from my pov would be:
1) that Red and Blue flights had become too separated and were no longer mutually supporting, although the pairs were flying together well;
2) comms weren't as good as they could have been with Java, but I'm not sure how easy that is to fix.
3) can't really comment on the p51s disposition, although your comment about them maybe flying higher is fair enough. This would have increased the risk of them getting too much separation or losing sight of us altogether, but might have been worthwhile chancing.
There are other things for us to consider too, but as we are bound to clash again we might need to preserve some discretion, naturally :)
Thanks for the AAR.
Roke
Get Outlook for Android <https://aka.ms/ghei36>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From:* 56raf_firebirds-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <56raf_firebirds-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> on behalf of Bart <dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
*Sent:* Monday, April 26, 2021 8:01:55 PM
*To:* 56raf_firebirds@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <56raf_firebirds@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
*Subject:* [56raf_firebirds] Skirmish over the northern Kuban sea
Blaggards took off in K4’s from Kerch to patrol the northern sea lanes after flying north and then eastwards we sighted a formation of 5 aircraft.
With instructions of get in and out, no mixing it, I was preparing to take the rear left(most southern) of the formation. When Witch declared that he had another aircraft away slightly north and rear of the formation, I dipped my wing to look and saw another aircraft underneath me to the rear centre of the formation. So targets were changed and these were the first two.
Witch attacked his target(Biggles) a P51 caused enough damage to knock him out of any fight, I hit my target(Ice) with cannon and he went into an unrecoverable spin, two down.
We saw the main formation turn to the south as we recovered from our attack. With the most southerly pair of Tempests(Phoenix/Pod) with a P51(Jumper) turning south more or less the same time it left the northern pair of Tempests(Roke/Stickz) lagging behind and a gap started to open even more.
So now the chase is on we dived down towards the rear pair, noticing the front three were some way in front, we would have three vs two. I was lining up on the rear right Tempest(Stickz), they must of seen us as Stickz turned left followed by Roke. Not being able to follow the turn, I did a classic climb extend out, roll out then match the flat turn for line up. The fight was on:).
Now unbeknown by us there was a fourth P51(Roode Duivel) who was way to the rear(east) of everyone else at the beginning, who had now caught up and joined the fight, but some of the long long range shooting;).
Now we have a 3 vs 3, I managed to get one Tempest(Roke), we then had a conga line, P51(Roode Duivel) chasing our Red Devil, with Moose, chasing him and Tempest(Stickz) chasing Moose.
Now I reckon if only Stickz had got rid of all his bombs(the right wing bomb was still attached), he would have had a better chance of hitting Moose, especially with those Tempest guns;). As it turned out Moose got the Roode Duivel which just left Stickz, who was shot down by Witch.
A few things we noticed the 51’s, were at around 18000ft, we were at 23000ft, and they were well spread out. So maybe they might want to go a bit higher than they were and operate in closer pairs if possible?
The Tempest were in good finger four formation.
Did you get warned that two 51’s were down ?
When the formation turned south maybe get the northern pair go first, as they had the furthest to go and could close the gap that way. The gap just got bigger, and there was no way they were going to catch up, the front group.
Once we saw that the front group were not coming back it helped us dictate the fight with a 3 vs 2 situation. The fourth 51 almost threw a spanner in the works as we were then 3 vs 3. If the front group had dropped bombs and come back to help the rear group at the very least it would have caused us to disengage. As then it would have been 6 vs 3, and they would have had more energy as the 51 had, agree or disagree?
https://56punjabvirtualsquad.boards.net/post/459/thread <https://56punjabvirtualsquad.boards.net/post/459/thread>
Any thoughts, how did you see the skirmish go?
Good fight <S>
Bart
