I was really trying to ascertain why warnings are not acted on, comms, etc. How
cooperative the two squads were getting in missions etc.
We have had this discussion a few times, but doing attacks on objectives are
difficult at the best of times whether you go low or medium altitude. It’s the
way the maps are designed that congregates the meeting of the the two forces. I
don’t think there is an easy answer.
Close escort to bombers at medium to low alt is extremely hard, how many times
when engaged has that really worked that the bombers and all escort make it
home?
If we take the last two scenarios we were involved in, the first one we provide
high (22’000ft) cover to a low level attack. We fended off 4 high fighters, but
unfortunately the low close escort lost 3 fighters to 2 low fighters the
bombers made it home.
The second scenario we were the enemy, the medium to high alt close escort to
the medium alt ground attackers. The escort lost 3 out of 4 aircraft and the
ground attackers lost 2 out of 4, to 3 high enemy aircraft.
The key on both of these has been altitude the higher the altitude the more
options you have. There are other things we could also bring into this to off
set the altitude advantage etc, but I would be writing forever lol.
There is not a “I always win button” solution I am afraid, and one method might
work one but not the next. I am a believer to try and put yourself in the best
possible position that gives you more options and take the options away from
the enemy. Above all team work gives you the most options, but harder to
control as the team gets bigger, as everyone might not be as switched on to the
same level.
Colin
On 30 Apr 2021, at 11:36, dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
Working out the best way to fly with Java is a challenge at present.
For a fast, fighter-bomber mission like on Sunday, there is a danger at
present that all they will do is end up being sacrificial decoys if attacked
by higher enemies. And also add some confusion for the rest of us as to
what's going on.
Perhaps - for that mission profile - asking Java to fly ahead and light up
the radar at a different, but nearby target might be a useful alternative
approach?
As for the 'attacked by higher enemies' bit, we all know the Tempest at 25k+
with 2000lbs of bombs is a dog. But if we had been that high when the
Blaggards first spotted us, things would have gone differently. At the least,
we would have had more options - and no real need of direct escort anyway.
There's no implied criticism there BTW, had I been leading on Sunday I
probably wouldn't have gone that high either.
When flying bombers, or for a low level attack, having Java fly closer escort
on the other hand could still be the right way to go. I'm all for flying
together, but if the limitations we've seen recently aren't likely to change
we just have to take that into account.
Roke
On Friday, 30 April 2021, 10:05:18 BST, 56RAF_phoenix
<phoenix@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
You're mostly right there Colin, but to labour the points:
I'm not sure language is really a problem... their English is rather
better than my Dutch!
Close escort is really, really hard, as Bo and I found when we trivially
massacred an escorted Ju52 a couple of weeks ago.
But they have a real formation discipline problem, for example one of
them got lost or something and was coming in late, so when I called my
warning I wasn't sure and nor were they. I don't think our relationship
as squads is close enough for joint training yet.
As to the Reverb G2 spotting, I haven't got good settings yet (another
email to follow in due course), for example the murky conditions on
CombatBox last night were dreadful for me. They also had the "moving
cockpit" problem and I talked them through that later, though one of
them seemed to know the answer anyway.
Having taken over when Cina had to leave, I was kind of in "bomber
survival" mode because we don't often do bombed-up Tempests. It's very
different because with rear gunners, I set mine to long-distance and get
plenty of warning. So I wasn't playing to our strength, which would have
been to ditch the bombs. But that would still have left us with an
energy disadvantage. So I think turning South was right, but I should
have taken the time to make it a tac-turn so that Roke & Stickz were
abreast. Then ditched the bombs and extended to equalise energy.
Either way, most of Java would have been dead by then. So you could
argue that it would have been just as good to continue to target and get
at least some military objective.
I know this will sound brutal, but the escort really have to be able to
look after themselves because bombers/bombed-up fighters will never have
enough energy to come to their immediate help.
You may remember you killed a few of us at low level a few months ago on
the deck in a similar way and I proposed an unconventional flight layout
to provide better outward coverage. That's pretty much all bombers can
offer to the escort.
56RAF_phoneix
