Working out the best way to fly with Java is a challenge at present.
For a fast, fighter-bomber mission like on Sunday, there is a danger at present
that all they will do is end up being sacrificial decoys if attacked by higher
enemies. And also add some confusion for the rest of us as to what's going on.
Perhaps - for that mission profile - asking Java to fly ahead and light up the
radar at a different, but nearby target might be a useful alternative approach?
As for the 'attacked by higher enemies' bit, we all know the Tempest at 25k+
with 2000lbs of bombs is a dog. But if we had been that high when the Blaggards
first spotted us, things would have gone differently. At the least, we would
have had more options - and no real need of direct escort anyway. There's no
implied criticism there BTW, had I been leading on Sunday I probably wouldn't
have gone that high either.
When flying bombers, or for a low level attack, having Java fly closer escort
on the other hand could still be the right way to go. I'm all for flying
together, but if the limitations we've seen recently aren't likely to change we
just have to take that into account.
Roke
On Friday, 30 April 2021, 10:05:18 BST, 56RAF_phoenix
<phoenix@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
You're mostly right there Colin, but to labour the points:
I'm not sure language is really a problem... their English is rather
better than my Dutch!
Close escort is really, really hard, as Bo and I found when we trivially
massacred an escorted Ju52 a couple of weeks ago.
But they have a real formation discipline problem, for example one of
them got lost or something and was coming in late, so when I called my
warning I wasn't sure and nor were they. I don't think our relationship
as squads is close enough for joint training yet.
As to the Reverb G2 spotting, I haven't got good settings yet (another
email to follow in due course), for example the murky conditions on
CombatBox last night were dreadful for me. They also had the "moving
cockpit" problem and I talked them through that later, though one of
them seemed to know the answer anyway.
Having taken over when Cina had to leave, I was kind of in "bomber
survival" mode because we don't often do bombed-up Tempests. It's very
different because with rear gunners, I set mine to long-distance and get
plenty of warning. So I wasn't playing to our strength, which would have
been to ditch the bombs. But that would still have left us with an
energy disadvantage. So I think turning South was right, but I should
have taken the time to make it a tac-turn so that Roke & Stickz were
abreast. Then ditched the bombs and extended to equalise energy.
Either way, most of Java would have been dead by then. So you could
argue that it would have been just as good to continue to target and get
at least some military objective.
I know this will sound brutal, but the escort really have to be able to
look after themselves because bombers/bombed-up fighters will never have
enough energy to come to their immediate help.
You may remember you killed a few of us at low level a few months ago on
the deck in a similar way and I proposed an unconventional flight layout
to provide better outward coverage. That's pretty much all bombers can
offer to the escort.
56RAF_phoneix
On 28/04/2021 12:05, Colin (Redacted sender bart_56 for DMARC) wrote:
Hi Phoenix,
Did they get the warning correct language issue or transmit issue? If
language maybe get Pod/Boot/Dutch to relay the messages in the future?
Do they need help/training in keeping formation, etc, as JaVa are flying with
56 on a regular basis, joint training might help? I do think JaVa doing joint
missions etc is great btw:). How do you communicate with them outside of
squad nights, maybe bring them into the existing comms settings, if this is a
permanent fixture?
They have all got G2’s wow, I presume that you have now got good settings for
spotting with the G2, have they tried them ?
Hmm real life I think there could be a whole discussion on that;).
The decision was made and I respect that, as you are in charge and leading
the mission.
Comms do not seem run smoothly as a rule, between the different flights. As
you have mentioned about the comms to JaVa and not knowing Roke/Stickz
situation. Any way do you think there is a way to improve this?
As Roke says it’s good to hear the opposing forces PoV, most online
engagements don’t have the opportunity to do this, to see where things went
right and wrong. Plus it makes the debriefs more complete and interesting.
Just some small stuff that’s needs some work on :).
Colin
On 27 Apr 2021, at 22:55, 56RAF_phoenix <phoenix@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
I actually called a warning to Java. They're not great at keeping
consistent formations so we can spot attackers. Also, I think they're having
real problem spotting with their Reverb G2s. I sorted out a cockpit-moving
problem for them at the end of the evening.
So, in real life, as long as they weren't directly attacked I think the
Tempests with bombs would have continued to target as we did, because that's
their mission. Shooting down enemy fighters is a secondary objective. Us
bombers assume the escort can look after themselves unless outnumbered.
There's a case to be made that we should have turned back when Roke & Stickz
got attacked. But by then I wouldn't have known how many were down.
56RAF_phoenix
