Will answer properly tomorrow as off to bed for work :(.
But with point number three we were higher than the 51’s by about 4-5000ft we
could see the Tempest flight quite easily, don’t think the 51’s should have had
a problem following you. I think going higher is worth the risk;).
By all means consider others things as we might clash again;), but I am very
happy to fly as support as we did the other day. I tell everything on the
tactics we use, always have, I like going through AAR whether good or bad
results, it’s a good way to learn :). I have always found keep a good look out
and situation awareness will hold you in good stead as a base line.
Being outnumbered obviously can serious dent that;).
Colin
On 26 Apr 2021, at 21:32, Joe Stronach <dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Well, from my pov, we saw and heard the p51s were engaged. I saw one aircraft
spinning down (no ID) in the distance, then Stickz and I noticed aircraft
closing on our 6. Without a mirror in the Tempest, I couldn't ID them, but we
figured they may well be hostile so manouvred accordingly.
I knew Java were engaged, but didn't know they were two down. Essentially, I
presumed two or three P51s were still in the fight, and in proximity. The
correct move for Stickz and me - given our E disadvantage and the ACTUAL odds
was to disengage after our initial evasion, and we might have been able to do
that.
Anyway, having miss-read the odds and turned to stay in the fight, I avoided
a head - on from one 109 but was then was insta-killed by Bart, who I hadn't
seen come back down behind me.
I'm not sure if Witch shot Stickz's digital ghost, as I think he discoed at a
bad moment.
Tactical lessons from my pov would be:
1) that Red and Blue flights had become too separated and were no longer
mutually supporting, although the pairs were flying together well;
2) comms weren't as good as they could have been with Java, but I'm not sure
how easy that is to fix.
3) can't really comment on the p51s disposition, although your comment about
them maybe flying higher is fair enough. This would have increased the risk
of them getting too much separation or losing sight of us altogether, but
might have been worthwhile chancing.
There are other things for us to consider too, but as we are bound to clash
again we might need to preserve some discretion, naturally :)
Thanks for the AAR.
Roke
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From: 56raf_firebirds-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<56raf_firebirds-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> on behalf of Bart
<dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, April 26, 2021 8:01:55 PM
To: 56raf_firebirds@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <56raf_firebirds@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [56raf_firebirds] Skirmish over the northern Kuban sea
Blaggards took off in K4’s from Kerch to patrol the northern sea lanes after
flying north and then eastwards we sighted a formation of 5 aircraft.
With instructions of get in and out, no mixing it, I was preparing to take
the rear left(most southern) of the formation. When Witch declared that he
had another aircraft away slightly north and rear of the formation, I dipped
my wing to look and saw another aircraft underneath me to the rear centre of
the formation. So targets were changed and these were the first two.
Witch attacked his target(Biggles) a P51 caused enough damage to knock him
out of any fight, I hit my target(Ice) with cannon and he went into an
unrecoverable spin, two down.
We saw the main formation turn to the south as we recovered from our attack.
With the most southerly pair of Tempests(Phoenix/Pod) with a P51(Jumper)
turning south more or less the same time it left the northern pair of
Tempests(Roke/Stickz) lagging behind and a gap started to open even more.
So now the chase is on we dived down towards the rear pair, noticing the
front three were some way in front, we would have three vs two. I was lining
up on the rear right Tempest(Stickz), they must of seen us as Stickz turned
left followed by Roke. Not being able to follow the turn, I did a classic
climb extend out, roll out then match the flat turn for line up. The fight
was on:).
Now unbeknown by us there was a fourth P51(Roode Duivel) who was way to the
rear(east) of everyone else at the beginning, who had now caught up and
joined the fight, but some of the long long range shooting;).
Now we have a 3 vs 3, I managed to get one Tempest(Roke), we then had a conga
line, P51(Roode Duivel) chasing our Red Devil, with Moose, chasing him and
Tempest(Stickz) chasing Moose.
Now I reckon if only Stickz had got rid of all his bombs(the right wing bomb
was still attached), he would have had a better chance of hitting Moose,
especially with those Tempest guns;). As it turned out Moose got the Roode
Duivel which just left Stickz, who was shot down by Witch.
A few things we noticed the 51’s, were at around 18000ft, we were at 23000ft,
and they were well spread out. So maybe they might want to go a bit higher
than they were and operate in closer pairs if possible?
The Tempest were in good finger four formation.
Did you get warned that two 51’s were down ?
When the formation turned south maybe get the northern pair go first, as they
had the furthest to go and could close the gap that way. The gap just got
bigger, and there was no way they were going to catch up, the front group.
Once we saw that the front group were not coming back it helped us dictate
the fight with a 3 vs 2 situation. The fourth 51 almost threw a spanner in
the works as we were then 3 vs 3. If the front group had dropped bombs and
come back to help the rear group at the very least it would have caused us to
disengage. As then it would have been 6 vs 3, and they would have had more
energy as the 51 had, agree or disagree?
https://56punjabvirtualsquad.boards.net/post/459/thread
Any thoughts, how did you see the skirmish go?
Good fight <S>
Bart
