[Wittrs] Re: Wittgenstein's meaning is use.
- From: Glen Sizemore <gmsizemore2@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: wittrs@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2009 04:53:45 -0700 (PDT)
--- On Thu, 10/1/09, BruceD <blroadies@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> From: BruceD <blroadies@xxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: [Wittrs] Re: Wittgenstein's meaning is use.
> To: wittrs@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Date: Thursday, October 1, 2009, 10:39 PM
>
> --- In Wittrs@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx,
> Glen Sizemore <gmsizemore2@...> wrote:
>
> "If it is nonsense to say that "utterances express
> meanings" - and if
> one looks at how "meaning" is used, it becomes obvious that
> it is - then
> why would it not be nonsense when the utterances are
> observable only to
> the speaker and listener who, in this case, are the same
> person?"
>
> Bruce responds:
>
> If it is nonsense to say X, then it follows it is nonsense
> to say that X
> is observed by anyone.
It sounds like you mean this to be a paraphrase of what I said. It isn't.
>
> But how did you get to the conclusion that it is nonsense
> to say phrase
> X? Is the exact phrase, those particular words that are
> nonsense or is
> it the meaning of the uterance expressed in the words
> nonsense?
Look, meanings are to be found in the determiners of utterances, but the
determiners of utterances are not possesions found in the alleged mind or the
real, but conceptually ill-conceived, brain. What you have written above, by
the way, presupposes that utterances express meanings. What I was saying was
rather simple - if it is nonsense to say that "out-loud" utterances "express
meanings," it is no less nonsense to say that covert utterances "express
meanings." There is no fundamental difference between overt and covert
utterances. As to whether or not the exact phrase is what is nonsense, I would
say "no." What is nonsense are all locutions that have HAD a particular effect
on listeners. This does not mean that there exists "a meaning" that is the
common cause of a class of utternces. It means that some of the causes of
utterances (which are to be found in the intersection of genetic, cultural, and
personal histories) are common to utterances that have
different forms. The utterances, "Waiter, Water!", "Would you bring me a glass
of water please?" and "I need some water." all have different forms (they have
in common, of course, the mand "water"), but they "mean" the same thing in the
sense that SOME of the variables controlling the utterances (and this includes
the histories responsible for that control) are the same.
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