In a message dated 12/9/02 2:43:48 PM Pacific Standard Time, teltek2@xxxxxxxxxxxx writes: << Subj: [TechAssist] Re: GE 20GT425 Turns OFF/ON Repeatedly Date: 12/9/02 2:43:48 PM Pacific Standard Time From: teltek2@xxxxxxxxxxxx (teltek2) Sender: techassist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Reply-to: techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx To: techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx I second the motion Ed. My sentiments exactly. Totally unproductive and of no help. Paul Hollis; A little suggestion....let's leave the "snide" remarks to the AOL chat groups, not something the rest of us need to hear, so let's move on. -Ed- Tel-Tek Electronics Ontario-Canada teltek2@xxxxxxxxxxxx ----- Original Message ----- From: <HSWAD@xxxxxxx> To: <techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Monday, December 09, 2002 5:25 PM Subject: [TechAssist] Re: GE 20GT425 Turns OFF/ON Repeatedly > Wow! In your comments you actually troubleshooted the problem. Now if you had > used a scope you would have actually observed what was happening instead of > guessing. You can see what those nasty little electrons are doing or not > doing. I encourage you to use that scope cause you sound like winner to me. > You'll love the results. I'll help any way i can even if its by phone-my > nickel. Hollis Bates, field engineer-retired > In a message > dated 12/9/02 1:53:41 PM Eastern Standard Time, mrfixit@xxxxxxxxxxx writes: > > > > Subj:[TechAssist] Re: GE 20GT425 Turns OFF/ON Repeatedly > > Date:12/9/02 1:53:41 PM Eastern Standard Time > > From:<A HREF="mailto:mrfixit@xxxxxxxxxxx";>mrfixit@xxxxxxxxxxx</A> > > Reply-to:<A HREF="mailto:techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx";> techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx</A> > > To:<A HREF="mailto:techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx";>techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx</A> > > Sent from the Internet > > > > > > > > > > I completely appreciate the help but I still don't understand how a scope > > would have helped here. The fact is the TV was cycling OFF then ON, > > repeatedly. How could anyone conclude the source of the problem by > > observing > > intermittent signals and voltages? The control source for this cyclic > > action > > is the micro controller. What would I expect to see on the micro controller > > output pin to the relay? A signal level cycling OFF and ON repeatedly. Not > > much to conclude here. What else would I look at? The micro controller's > > oscillator? The oscillator was always running, occasionally with a glitch. > > The ON/OFF switch to the micro? Tried that. Power to the micro circuit? It > > was intermittent. None of these observation concluded beyond a shadow of a > > doubt what the problem was. > > > > It was the good old "hunt and peck" method that identified the intermittent > > cold solder joint in the micro circuit. > > > > I don't have a schematic, but I believe the micro is powered by a stand-by > > power source. The cold solder joint repair was in the micro controller's > > power supply. I'm not sure why I didn't observe more serious oscillator > > glitches when the problem occured, perhaps the larger electrolytic filter > > capacitor kept things running during the power interruption. Just a > > thought. > > > > I trust this concludes all that needs to be said about this problem. > > > > Thanks again to all who inputted. You guys are the best! > > > > David Lessard > > Alexandria Electronics > > Engineering Technologist > > Embedded Software/Hardware Developer > > mrfixit@xxxxxxxxxxx > > (613)525-4502 > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: techassist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > > [mailto:techassist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of HSWAD@xxxxxxx > > Sent: Monday, December 09, 2002 12:42 PM > > To: techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > > Subject: [TechAssist] Re: GE 20GT425 Turns OFF/ON Repeatedly > > > > > > Gosh man didn't mean to ruffle your feathers. With your scope you could > > have > > observed the action as it turned on and off right back to the source of the > > problem. Think about it. would have been faster. Just trying to give you > > the > > same idea that I preached for 35 years as a field engineer. Congrats on > > having a good scope. I remain-Hollis Bates, field Engineer-retired > > In a message > > dated 12/9/02 10:14:54 AM Eastern Standard Time, mrfixit@xxxxxxxxxxx > > writes: > > > > > > > Subj:[TechAssist] Re: GE 20GT425 Turns OFF/ON Repeatedly > > > Date:12/9/02 10:14:54 AM Eastern Standard Time > > > From:<A HREF="mailto:mrfixit@xxxxxxxxxxx";>mrfixit@xxxxxxxxxxx</A> > > > Reply-to:HREF="mailto:techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx";>techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > > > To:<A HREF="mailto:techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx";>techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx </A> > > > Sent from the Internet > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hollis, > > > > > > Yes I have a scope, a nice one too! And as a professional just how is one > > > supposed to monitor a problem where there is a constant cycling of the > > > power > > > OFF and ON. I ask you this question. Did you even read the symptom? > > Anyway > > > tne problem is resolved, if you have any comments or suggestions in how > > > someone should go about troubleshooting an intermittent like this then > > feel > > > free to spread the word. > > > > > > "Share what you know, learn what you don't" > > > > > > David Lessard > > > Alexandria Electronics > > > 50 Harrison Street > > > Alexandria, Ontario > > > (613)525-4502 > > > mrfixit@xxxxxxxxxxx > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: techassist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > > > [mailto:techassist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of HSWAD@xxxxxxx > > > Sent: Monday, December 09, 2002 8:32 AM > > > To: techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > > > Subject: [TechAssist] Re: GE 20GT425 Turns OFF/ON Repeatedly > > > > > > > > > But you still found it with the hunt and peck method which costs both you > > > and > > > your customer money. Using your scope would have narrowed that down to 15 > > > minutes or so while the trouble was in progress. I have been telling guys > > > for > > > years to be a Tech not a tinkerer. Hollis Bates, Field Engineer retired > > > USE > > > YOUR SCOPE > > > In > > > a message dated 12/9/02 6:00:01 AM Eastern Standard Time, > > > mrfixit@xxxxxxxxxxx > > > writes: > > > > > > > > > > Subj:[TechAssist] Re: GE 20GT425 Turns OFF/ON Repeatedly > > > > Date:12/9/02 6:00:01 AM Eastern Standard Time > > > > From:<A HREF="mailto:mrfixit@xxxxxxxxxxx";>mrfixit@xxxxxxxxxxx</A> > > > > Reply-to:HREF="mailto:techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx";> > > techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > > > > To:HREF="mailto:techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx";>techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > > > > Sent from the Internet > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Symptom: > > > > > > > > Cyclic OFF/ON problem (relay clicking) usually after power-up but also > > > > occured intermittently. The cycle can be stopped by holding the power > > > > button > > > > ON during the next OFF/ON cycle, then the TV shuts off normally. The > > > > problem > > > > was intermittent, sometimes days between acting up. > > > > > > > > Solution: > > > > > > > > Found numerous postings regarding CR4118, replaced it. No change. > > > Confirmed > > > > switch was not the problem by replacing it with another one. No change. > > > > Re-soldered in and around HOT area, transformers, etc. No change. > > Further > > > > investigation revealed several cold solder joints near R118U - 33ohm > > > power > > > > resistor near CR4118. Visual inpection didn't reveal this problem, the > > > > joints appeared OK. The problem was discovered by applying pressure to > > > the > > > > PCB near R118U. This dog is out the door. > > > > > > > > Thanks to all who provided input. > > > > > > > > David Lessard > > > > Alexandria Electronics > > > > 50 Harrison Street > > > > Alexandria, Ontario > > > > (613)525-4502 > > > > mrfixit@xxxxxxxxxxx > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------ > > > > Submit A Repair Tip For Everyone Here: > > > > http://www.tech-assist.org/secure/tip/main.html > > > > ------------------------------------------ > > > > To REMOVE your email address, click here: > > > > http://www.tech-assist.org/unsubb.html > > > > To CHANGE your email address, click here: > > > > http://www.techassist.net/forms/change.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------ > > > Submit A Repair Tip For Everyone Here: > > > http://www.tech-assist.org/secure/tip/main.html > > > ------------------------------------------ > > > To REMOVE your email address, click here: > > > http://www.tech-assist.org/unsubb.html > > > To CHANGE your email address, click here: > > > http://www.techassist.net/forms/change.html > > > > > > ------------------------------------------ > > > Submit A Repair Tip For Everyone Here: > > > http://www.tech-assist.org/secure/tip/main.html > > > ------------------------------------------ > > > To REMOVE your email address, click here: > > > http://www.tech-assist.org/unsubb.html > > > To CHANGE your email address, click here: > > > http://www.techassist.net/forms/change.html > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------ > > Submit A Repair Tip For Everyone Here: > > http://www.tech-assist.org/secure/tip/main.html > > ------------------------------------------ > > To REMOVE your email address, click here: > > http://www.tech-assist.org/unsubb.html > > To CHANGE your email address, click here: > > http://www.techassist.net/forms/change.html > > > > ------------------------------------------ > > Submit A Repair Tip For Everyone Here: > > http://www.tech-assist.org/secure/tip/main.html > > ------------------------------------------ > > To REMOVE your email address, click here: > > http://www.tech-assist.org/unsubb.html > > To CHANGE your email address, click here: > > http://www.techassist.net/forms/change.html > > > > > > ------------------------------------------ > Submit A Repair Tip For Everyone Here: > http://www.tech-assist.org/secure/tip/main.html > ------------------------------------------ > To REMOVE your email address, click here: > http://www.tech-assist.org/unsubb.html > To CHANGE your email address, click here: > http://www.techassist.net/forms/change.html > > ------------------------------------------ Submit A Repair Tip For Everyone Here: http://www.tech-assist.org/secure/tip/main.html ------------------------------------------ To REMOVE your email address, click here: http://www.tech-assist.org/unsubb.html To CHANGE your email address, click here: http://www.techassist.net/forms/change.html ----------------------- Headers -------------------------------- Return-Path: <techassist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Received: from rly-xj02.mx.aol.com (rly-xj02.mail.aol.com [172.20.116.39]) by air-xj03.mail.aol.com (v90.10) with ESMTP id MAILINXJ31-1209174348; Mon, 09 Dec 2002 17:43:48 -0500 Received: from turing.freelists.org (freelists-180.iquest.net [206.53.239.180]) by rly-xj02.mx.aol.com (v90.10) with ESMTP id MAILRELAYINXJ210-1209174312; Mon, 09 Dec 2002 17:43:12 -0500 Received: from turing.(none) (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (FreeLists Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 2EA6D94855; Mon, 9 Dec 2002 17:41:24 -0500 (EST) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list techassist); Mon, 09 Dec 2002 17:41:24 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Received: from tomts8-srv.bellnexxia.net (tomts8.bellnexxia.net [209.226.175.52]) by turing.freelists.org (FreeLists Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 42A7794709 for <techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>; Mon, 9 Dec 2002 17:41:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from HOUSE ([64.231.186.224]) by tomts8-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.04.19 201-253-122-122-119-20020516) with SMTP id <20021209224306.ETQP12869.tomts8-srv.bellnexxia.net@HOUSE> for <techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>; Mon, 9 Dec 2002 17:43:06 -0500 Message-ID: <007c01c29fd4$7621b980$e0bae740@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> From: "teltek2" <teltek2@xxxxxxxxxxxx> To: <techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> References: <64.29635417.2b267260@xxxxxxx> Subject: [TechAssist] Re: GE 20GT425 Turns OFF/ON Repeatedly Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 17:43:57 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-archive-position: 12033 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: techassist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Errors-To: techassist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx X-original-sender: teltek2@xxxxxxxxxxxx Precedence: normal Reply-To: techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx X-list: techassist >> ------------------------------------------ Submit A Repair Tip For Everyone Here: http://www.tech-assist.org/secure/tip/main.html ------------------------------------------ To REMOVE your email address, click here: http://www.tech-assist.org/unsubb.html To CHANGE your email address, click here: http://www.techassist.net/forms/change.html