Wow! Your sarcasm is unbelievable, old dogs like you will never change, and I mean that in the most respectful way. I did use my scope but it didn't reveal much except the oscillator glitch. Yeah, this may have been a clue to what was going on, but I missed it, this only affirms that I am human. We learn from our mistakes, and when you learn the hard way you never forget! I appreciate and respect your advise, I hope to remain a "winner" with you Hollis. Season Greetings to you and yours. Cheers. "Share what you know, Learn what you don't" David Lessard Engineering Technologist Embedded Software/Hardware Developer mrfixit@xxxxxxxxxxx (513)525-4502 -----Original Message----- From: techassist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:techassist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of HSWAD@xxxxxxx Sent: Monday, December 09, 2002 5:26 PM To: techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [TechAssist] Re: GE 20GT425 Turns OFF/ON Repeatedly Wow! In your comments you actually troubleshooted the problem. Now if you had used a scope you would have actually observed what was happening instead of guessing. You can see what those nasty little electrons are doing or not doing. I encourage you to use that scope cause you sound like winner to me. You'll love the results. I'll help any way i can even if its by phone-my nickel. Hollis Bates, field engineer-retired In a message dated 12/9/02 1:53:41 PM Eastern Standard Time, mrfixit@xxxxxxxxxxx writes: > Subj:[TechAssist] Re: GE 20GT425 Turns OFF/ON Repeatedly > Date:12/9/02 1:53:41 PM Eastern Standard Time > From:<A HREF="mailto:mrfixit@xxxxxxxxxxx";>mrfixit@xxxxxxxxxxx</A> > Reply-to:<A HREF="mailto:techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx";>techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx</A> > To:<A HREF="mailto:techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx";>techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx</A> > Sent from the Internet > > > > > I completely appreciate the help but I still don't understand how a scope > would have helped here. The fact is the TV was cycling OFF then ON, > repeatedly. How could anyone conclude the source of the problem by > observing > intermittent signals and voltages? The control source for this cyclic > action > is the micro controller. What would I expect to see on the micro controller > output pin to the relay? A signal level cycling OFF and ON repeatedly. Not > much to conclude here. What else would I look at? The micro controller's > oscillator? The oscillator was always running, occasionally with a glitch. > The ON/OFF switch to the micro? Tried that. Power to the micro circuit? It > was intermittent. None of these observation concluded beyond a shadow of a > doubt what the problem was. > > It was the good old "hunt and peck" method that identified the intermittent > cold solder joint in the micro circuit. > > I don't have a schematic, but I believe the micro is powered by a stand-by > power source. The cold solder joint repair was in the micro controller's > power supply. I'm not sure why I didn't observe more serious oscillator > glitches when the problem occured, perhaps the larger electrolytic filter > capacitor kept things running during the power interruption. Just a > thought. > > I trust this concludes all that needs to be said about this problem. > > Thanks again to all who inputted. You guys are the best! > > David Lessard > Alexandria Electronics > Engineering Technologist > Embedded Software/Hardware Developer > mrfixit@xxxxxxxxxxx > (613)525-4502 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: techassist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > [mailto:techassist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of HSWAD@xxxxxxx > Sent: Monday, December 09, 2002 12:42 PM > To: techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > Subject: [TechAssist] Re: GE 20GT425 Turns OFF/ON Repeatedly > > > Gosh man didn't mean to ruffle your feathers. With your scope you could > have > observed the action as it turned on and off right back to the source of the > problem. Think about it. would have been faster. Just trying to give you > the > same idea that I preached for 35 years as a field engineer. Congrats on > having a good scope. I remain-Hollis Bates, field Engineer-retired > In a message > dated 12/9/02 10:14:54 AM Eastern Standard Time, mrfixit@xxxxxxxxxxx > writes: > > > > Subj:[TechAssist] Re: GE 20GT425 Turns OFF/ON Repeatedly > > Date:12/9/02 10:14:54 AM Eastern Standard Time > > From:<A HREF="mailto:mrfixit@xxxxxxxxxxx";>mrfixit@xxxxxxxxxxx</A> > > Reply-to:HREF="mailto:techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx";>techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > > To:<A HREF="mailto:techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx";>techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx</A> > > Sent from the Internet > > > > > > > > > > Hollis, > > > > Yes I have a scope, a nice one too! And as a professional just how is one > > supposed to monitor a problem where there is a constant cycling of the > > power > > OFF and ON. I ask you this question. Did you even read the symptom? > Anyway > > tne problem is resolved, if you have any comments or suggestions in how > > someone should go about troubleshooting an intermittent like this then > feel > > free to spread the word. > > > > "Share what you know, learn what you don't" > > > > David Lessard > > Alexandria Electronics > > 50 Harrison Street > > Alexandria, Ontario > > (613)525-4502 > > mrfixit@xxxxxxxxxxx > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: techassist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > > [mailto:techassist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of HSWAD@xxxxxxx > > Sent: Monday, December 09, 2002 8:32 AM > > To: techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > > Subject: [TechAssist] Re: GE 20GT425 Turns OFF/ON Repeatedly > > > > > > But you still found it with the hunt and peck method which costs both you > > and > > your customer money. Using your scope would have narrowed that down to 15 > > minutes or so while the trouble was in progress. I have been telling guys > > for > > years to be a Tech not a tinkerer. Hollis Bates, Field Engineer retired > > USE > > YOUR SCOPE > > In > > a message dated 12/9/02 6:00:01 AM Eastern Standard Time, > > mrfixit@xxxxxxxxxxx > > writes: > > > > > > > Subj:[TechAssist] Re: GE 20GT425 Turns OFF/ON Repeatedly > > > Date:12/9/02 6:00:01 AM Eastern Standard Time > > > From:<A HREF="mailto:mrfixit@xxxxxxxxxxx";>mrfixit@xxxxxxxxxxx</A> > > > Reply-to:HREF="mailto:techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx";> > techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > > > To:HREF="mailto:techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx";>techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > > > Sent from the Internet > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Symptom: > > > > > > Cyclic OFF/ON problem (relay clicking) usually after power-up but also > > > occured intermittently. The cycle can be stopped by holding the power > > > button > > > ON during the next OFF/ON cycle, then the TV shuts off normally. The > > > problem > > > was intermittent, sometimes days between acting up. > > > > > > Solution: > > > > > > Found numerous postings regarding CR4118, replaced it. No change. > > Confirmed > > > switch was not the problem by replacing it with another one. No change. > > > Re-soldered in and around HOT area, transformers, etc. No change. > Further > > > investigation revealed several cold solder joints near R118U - 33ohm > > power > > > resistor near CR4118. Visual inpection didn't reveal this problem, the > > > joints appeared OK. The problem was discovered by applying pressure to > > the > > > PCB near R118U. This dog is out the door. > > > > > > Thanks to all who provided input. > > > > > > David Lessard > > > Alexandria Electronics > > > 50 Harrison Street > > > Alexandria, Ontario > > > (613)525-4502 > > > mrfixit@xxxxxxxxxxx > > > > > > ------------------------------------------ > > > Submit A Repair Tip For Everyone Here: > > > http://www.tech-assist.org/secure/tip/main.html > > > ------------------------------------------ > > > To REMOVE your email address, click here: > > > http://www.tech-assist.org/unsubb.html > > > To CHANGE your email address, click here: > > > http://www.techassist.net/forms/change.html > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------ > > Submit A Repair Tip For Everyone Here: > > http://www.tech-assist.org/secure/tip/main.html > > ------------------------------------------ > > To REMOVE your email address, click here: > > http://www.tech-assist.org/unsubb.html > > To CHANGE your email address, click here: > > http://www.techassist.net/forms/change.html > > > > ------------------------------------------ > > Submit A Repair Tip For Everyone Here: > > http://www.tech-assist.org/secure/tip/main.html > > ------------------------------------------ > > To REMOVE your email address, click here: > > http://www.tech-assist.org/unsubb.html > > To CHANGE your email address, click here: > > http://www.techassist.net/forms/change.html > > > > > > ------------------------------------------ > Submit A Repair Tip For Everyone Here: > http://www.tech-assist.org/secure/tip/main.html > ------------------------------------------ > To REMOVE your email address, click here: > http://www.tech-assist.org/unsubb.html > To CHANGE your email address, click here: > http://www.techassist.net/forms/change.html > > ------------------------------------------ > Submit A Repair Tip For Everyone Here: > http://www.tech-assist.org/secure/tip/main.html > ------------------------------------------ > To REMOVE your email address, click here: > http://www.tech-assist.org/unsubb.html > To CHANGE your email address, click here: > http://www.techassist.net/forms/change.html > ------------------------------------------ Submit A Repair Tip For Everyone Here: http://www.tech-assist.org/secure/tip/main.html ------------------------------------------ To REMOVE your email address, click here: http://www.tech-assist.org/unsubb.html To CHANGE your email address, click here: http://www.techassist.net/forms/change.html ------------------------------------------ Submit A Repair Tip For Everyone Here: http://www.tech-assist.org/secure/tip/main.html ------------------------------------------ To REMOVE your email address, click here: http://www.tech-assist.org/unsubb.html To CHANGE your email address, click here: http://www.techassist.net/forms/change.html