[TechAssist] Re: GE 20GT425 Turns OFF/ON Repeatedly
- From: HSWAD@xxxxxxx
- To: techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 18:45:48 EST
To be honest there was a little sarcasm there on purpose. The result is that
many will now give the scope a try in their troubleshooting proceedures. They
shall give me heck by doing their repairs faster and more profitable.That
will be my payment and punishment. Hollis Bates, Field Engineer-retired
In a message dated 12/9/02
6:11:14 PM Eastern Standard Time, lja@xxxxxxxxxxx writes:
> Subj:[TechAssist] Re: GE 20GT425 Turns OFF/ON Repeatedly
> Date:12/9/02 6:11:14 PM Eastern Standard Time
> From:<A HREF="mailto:lja@xxxxxxxxxxxxx";>lja@xxxxxxxxxxxxx</A>
> Reply-to:<A
> HREF="mailto:techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx";>techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx</A>
> To:<A HREF="mailto:techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx";>techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx</A>
> Sent from the Internet
>
>
>
>
> David, Ed, and Hollis
>
> I realize this reply is unnecessary and totally inappropriate, and for that
>
> I apologize the all others and especially the Mediator, but...
>
> I love sarcasm, and am dissapointed that I was unable to detect it in
> Hollis' reply. Quite seriously, would you please bring it succintly to my
> attention?
>
> Flaming me privately will be an acceptable response.
>
> Again, my sincerest apologies to all others on the list for belaboring this
> thread.
>
> Thankyou,
> Leon
> Deluxe Business Machines, Co
> Pine City, NY 14871-9626
>
>
>
> 12/9/02 2:45:21 PM, "David Lessard" <mrfixit@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> >
> >Wow! Your sarcasm is unbelievable, old dogs like you will never change,
> and
> >I mean that in the most respectful way. I did use my scope but it didn't
> >reveal much except the oscillator glitch. Yeah, this may have been a clue
> to
> >what was going on, but I missed it, this only affirms that I am human. We
> >learn from our mistakes, and when you learn the hard way you never forget!
> >
> >I appreciate and respect your advise, I hope to remain a "winner" with you
> >Hollis. Season Greetings to you and yours. Cheers.
> >
> >"Share what you know, Learn what you don't"
> >
> >David Lessard
> >Engineering Technologist
> >Embedded Software/Hardware Developer
> >mrfixit@xxxxxxxxxxx
> >(513)525-4502
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: techassist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >[mailto:techassist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of HSWAD@xxxxxxx
> >Sent: Monday, December 09, 2002 5:26 PM
> >To: techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >Subject: [TechAssist] Re: GE 20GT425 Turns OFF/ON Repeatedly
> >
> >
> >Wow! In your comments you actually troubleshooted the problem. Now if you
> >had
> >used a scope you would have actually observed what was happening instead
> of
> >guessing. You can see what those nasty little electrons are doing or not
> >doing. I encourage you to use that scope cause you sound like winner to
> me.
> >You'll love the results. I'll help any way i can even if its by phone-my
> >nickel. Hollis Bates, field engineer-retired
> > In a
> >message
> >dated 12/9/02 1:53:41 PM Eastern Standard Time, mrfixit@xxxxxxxxxxx
> writes:
> >
> >
> >> Subj:[TechAssist] Re: GE 20GT425 Turns OFF/ON Repeatedly
> >> Date:12/9/02 1:53:41 PM Eastern Standard Time
> >> From:<A HREF="mailto:mrfixit@xxxxxxxxxxx";>mrfixit@xxxxxxxxxxx</A>
> >> Reply-to:>HREF="mailto:techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx";>
> techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> To:<A HREF="mailto:techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx";>techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx</A>
> >> Sent from the Internet
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> I completely appreciate the help but I still don't understand how a
> scope
> >> would have helped here. The fact is the TV was cycling OFF then ON,
> >> repeatedly. How could anyone conclude the source of the problem by
> >> observing
> >> intermittent signals and voltages? The control source for this cyclic
> >> action
> >> is the micro controller. What would I expect to see on the micro
> >controller
> >> output pin to the relay? A signal level cycling OFF and ON repeatedly.
> Not
> >> much to conclude here. What else would I look at? The micro controller's
> >> oscillator? The oscillator was always running, occasionally with a
> glitch.
> >> The ON/OFF switch to the micro? Tried that. Power to the micro circuit?
> It
> >> was intermittent. None of these observation concluded beyond a shadow of
> a
> >> doubt what the problem was.
> >>
> >> It was the good old "hunt and peck" method that identified the
> >intermittent
> >> cold solder joint in the micro circuit.
> >>
> >> I don't have a schematic, but I believe the micro is powered by a
> stand-by
> >> power source. The cold solder joint repair was in the micro controller's
> >> power supply. I'm not sure why I didn't observe more serious oscillator
> >> glitches when the problem occured, perhaps the larger electrolytic
> filter
> >> capacitor kept things running during the power interruption. Just a
> >> thought.
> >>
> >> I trust this concludes all that needs to be said about this problem.
> >>
> >> Thanks again to all who inputted. You guys are the best!
> >>
> >> David Lessard
> >> Alexandria Electronics
> >> Engineering Technologist
> >> Embedded Software/Hardware Developer
> >> mrfixit@xxxxxxxxxxx
> >> (613)525-4502
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: techassist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> [mailto:techassist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of HSWAD@xxxxxxx
> >> Sent: Monday, December 09, 2002 12:42 PM
> >> To: techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> Subject: [TechAssist] Re: GE 20GT425 Turns OFF/ON Repeatedly
> >>
> >>
> >> Gosh man didn't mean to ruffle your feathers. With your scope you could
> >> have observed the action as it turned on and off right back to the
> source of
> >> the problem. Think about it. would have been faster. Just trying to give
> you
> >> the same idea that I preached for 35 years as a field engineer. Congrats
> on
> >> having a good scope. I remain-Hollis Bates, field Engineer-retired
> >>
> >>
> >> In a message dated 12/9/02 10:14:54 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> mrfixit@xxxxxxxxxxx
> >> writes:
> >>
> >>
> >>> Subj:[TechAssist] Re: GE 20GT425 Turns OFF/ON Repeatedly
> >>> Date:12/9/02 10:14:54 AM Eastern Standard Time
> >>> From:<A HREF="mailto:mrfixit@xxxxxxxxxxx";>mrfixit@xxxxxxxxxxx</A>
> >>> Reply-to:HREF="mailto:techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx";>
> techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>> To:HREF="mailto:techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx";>techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>> Sent from the Internet
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Hollis,
> >>>
> >>> Yes I have a scope, a nice one too! And as a professional just how is
> >>> one supposed to monitor a problem where there is a constant cycling of
> the
> >>> power OFF and ON. I ask you this question. Did you even read the
> symptom?
> >>> Anyway the problem is resolved, if you have any comments or suggestions
> in how
> >>> someone should go about troubleshooting an intermittent like this then
> >>> feel free to spread the word.
> >>>
> >>> "Share what you know, learn what you don't"
> >>>
> >>> David Lessard
> >>> Alexandria Electronics
> >>> 50 Harrison Street
> >>> Alexandria, Ontario
> >>> (613)525-4502
> >>> mrfixit@xxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: techassist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>> [mailto:techassist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of HSWAD@xxxxxxx
> >>> Sent: Monday, December 09, 2002 8:32 AM
> >>> To: techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>> Subject: [TechAssist] Re: GE 20GT425 Turns OFF/ON Repeatedly
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> But you still found it with the hunt and peck method which costs both
> >>> you and your customer money. Using your scope would have narrowed that
> down to
> >>> 15 minutes or so while the trouble was in progress. I have been telling
> >>> guys for years to be a Tech not a tinkerer. Hollis Bates, Field
> Engineer retired
> >>> USE YOUR SCOPE
> >>>
> >>> In a message dated 12/9/02 6:00:01 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> >>> mrfixit@xxxxxxxxxxx
> >>> writes:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> Subj:[TechAssist] Re: GE 20GT425 Turns OFF/ON Repeatedly
> >>>> Date:12/9/02 6:00:01 AM Eastern Standard Time
> >>>> From:<A HREF="mailto:mrfixit@xxxxxxxxxxx";>mrfixit@xxxxxxxxxxx</A>
> >>>> Reply-to:HREF="mailto:techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx";>
> >>>> techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>> To:HREF="mailto:techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx";>techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>> Sent from the Internet
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Symptom:
> >>>>
> >>>> Cyclic OFF/ON problem (relay clicking) usually after power-up but also
> >>>> occured intermittently. The cycle can be stopped by holding the power
> >>>> button ON during the next OFF/ON cycle, then the TV shuts off
> normally. The
> >>>> problem was intermittent, sometimes days between acting up.
> >>>>
> >>>> Solution:
> >>>>
> >>>> Found numerous postings regarding CR4118, replaced it. No change.
> >>>> Confirmed switch was not the problem by replacing it with another one.
> No
> >>>> change.
> >>>> Re-soldered in and around HOT area, transformers, etc. No change.
> >>>> Further investigation revealed several cold solder joints near R118U -
> 33ohm
> >>>> power resistor near CR4118. Visual inpection didn't reveal this
> problem, the
> >>>> joints appeared OK. The problem was discovered by applying pressure to
> >>>> the PCB near R118U. This dog is out the door.
> >>>>
> >>>> Thanks to all who provided input.
> >>>>
> >>>> David Lessard
> >>>> Alexandria Electronics
> >>>> 50 Harrison Street
> >>>> Alexandria, Ontario
> >>>> (613)525-4502
> >>>> mrfixit@xxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>>
> >>>> ------------------------------------------
>
>
>
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